Oh boy.

[conuly]

Link stolen from everyone.

The pastoral fields and white frame houses appear at peace, but this Pennsylvania farm town is deeply at war over teaching Darwin or Christian creationism in its schools.

*strikes Pennsylvania off of the list of states worth living in*

Since last year the school board voted to have high school biology teachers raise doubts about Darwin's 145-year-old theory and suggest an alternative Christian explanation for life. The city has since been deeply riven over the issue of separation of church and state.

What deeply riven? It's like this. YOU DO NOT WANT THE CHURCH MEDDLING IN THE STATE. YOU DO NOT WANT THE STATE MEDDLING IN THE CHURCH. You *really* do not want religion to be some sort of "majority rules" thing (unlike the government) because the last thing you want is for your religion to become the minority and end up persecuted for it.

In January the school board ordered teachers to tell students that Darwinism is not proved, and to teach as well an alternate theory, "intelligent design," which posits that a grand creator, God, is responsible for the development of living organisms.

1. Proven
2. Nothing in science is proven. That's the point of science.
3. If you have to posit things which can't be shown by the evidence, it's not science.

"Darwin's theory is a theory ... not a fact," the school board declared in their statement to the teachers. "Intelligent design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin's view," said the report.

The strength of the scientific method is that there are no facts. Bad school board! Bad!

The command landed in the sprawling, red-brick Dover high school like a bomb. Biology teachers refused to read it, while around 15 students walked out in protest.

Good teachers. Good students. You get a cookie.

"Creation is why we are here," said retired teacher Virginia Doll, defending the introduction of religion into the biology classes.

Um, I suppose...?

"We have a rather religious town, the God we serve is important in everything we do," she said.

You can say the same thing for Iranians, or the Taliban. And, in fact, I will.

On the other side was clergyman Warren Esbach. "I'm opposed to any group who wants to establish a theocracy. I come from a church who fled Germany in the 18th century for religious freedom," Esbach said.

Exactly. *hands out more cookies*

"If we continue to indoctrinate our young people with non-religious principles, we're headed for an internal destruction of this society," he said.

They've been saying that since Copernicus. Ooh...

"Evolution is just a theory and there are other theories," Mummert explained, smiling through his beard.

Do you know what the word theory means, sir? Sir?

There is such a complexity in life, and science wants to hang its hat on a belief that life somehow started -- they say there is no creator, no order ... I believe there is a creator," he said.

*yawns* I hate to do this, but...

So what created the creator?

Now, seriously. Scientifically, the existence of a deity can neither be proven nor disproven, so you're bearing false witness against science.

"Christians are a lot more bold under Bush's leadership, he speaks what a lot of us believe," said Mummert.

*is now very scared*

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," he said, adding that the school board's declaration is just a first step.

*cracks up laughing*

Oh, man. You have to read that again!

It took 30 or 40 years to eliminate God in school, it will take probably 30 or 40 years to get him back. You take a little step first, a little bite, then another little bite and another," said Steve Farrell, a nursery keeper, who dreams of the return to prayer in class.

Oh crap. Maybe there's inhabitable planets in other solar systems I can move to....

So, idea. Who wants to work with me to remove the teachings of that heretic Copernicus from our public schools? I mean, the Bible clearly states that the sun goes around the earth, right? As do the stars, of course. And we can see this every day, just by looking up!

Comments

[gypsyjr.livejournal.com]

It took 30 or 40 years to eliminate God in school, it will take probably 30 or 40 years to get him back.

Uhhhhhm.. isn't this why most churches have Sunday Schools? So kids can learn about religion where they're supposed to? :P

I have no problem with most religious folks, I just wish knuckleheads like this guy would stop acting like the world revolves around them.

[l33tminion]

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," he said, adding that the school board's declaration is just a first step.

ROFLMAO!

This is freedom reduced to the absurd, when the government feels it needs to give self-proclaimed representatives of the stupid and ignorant "a fair chance".

[leora.livejournal.com]

Well, Copernicus was right, but it's not wrong to say the sun revolves around the Earth. According to relativity, all frames of reference are equally valid, just not all are equally useful. So, you can say that the sun revolves around the Earth, and it's not wrong, but it becomes incredibly hard to plot the motion of all the other heavenly bodies. They become incredibly complex. The sun as center model is simply the best model to use to understand the motion of the solar system.

As to Pennsylvannia... don't judge the state by that area. PA is deeply divided. It has some strong liberal cities (like Pittsburgh, where I went to college) and a whole lot of Republican, "religious", rural areas. PA was a swing state, but it ended up voting Democrat in the 2004 election. PA has a lot of potential; it just also has a lot of wackjobs. But if you live in the cities, you don't interact much with the wackjobs.

[conuly]

You're right :) But I still like my line anyway.

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

*strikes Pennsylvania off of the list of states worth living in*

It's just the center parts, I swear! We have liberals! Although, if Rick Santorum gets reelected again, I swear, I'm moving.

On the other side was clergyman Warren Esbach. "I'm opposed to any group who wants to establish a theocracy. I come from a church who fled Germany in the 18th century for religious freedom," Esbach said.

*applauds him* He is obviously a very smart clergyman.

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture,"

XD *dies* Well, at least he admits it!

Who wants to work with me to remove the teachings of that heretic Copernicus from our public schools?

Yes! And we should be more like my CCD teachers and start telling students how the Earth was created 4,000 years ago, and not several billion like those lying, atheist, communist, anti-American science teachers keep trying to tell you.

[ironychan.livejournal.com]

What I find constantly hilarious is the fact that biblical literalism is a 20th century phenomenon. For 95% of the Bible's history, everybody able to actually read it agreed that most of what's in it isn't literally true. Copernicus and Galileo were attacked because their theories required a re-interpretation of scripture, not a non-literal one. Historically, the literal meaning of a bible passage was considered the least important way to interpret it.

When I invent that time machine, we'll get out of here together, ok?

[conuly]

Ooh! Can we get a few thousand people (and a lot of books) to go back and fuck with the timeline, so that by the time we're born things are perfect?

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture..."

I just can't get over that, no matter how many times I read it.

[ruthanolis.livejournal.com]

I think the problem all of those people have is that while they have a valid point, they are going about it totally the wrong way, and using the most incorrect words possible.
You don't want to teach creationism in schools [at least in science]. That's stupid. It's not scientific at all, which is what science class is oddly about.
What should be mentioned is that evolution and the big bang are unproven theories and there are other possibilities that aren't as scientific. And maybe talking about them a little, though without going in huge detail. It is science class after all.

Of course, my personal opinion is, why do they both have to be exclusive? Why can't they both be right? See, I like to think that God [or the creator] would have used the laws and rules he [they] created to create everything else. It seems strange and crazy to think that he just clicked his fingers, created everything and then, suddenly and without warning, these laws that govern everything came into being. Still, my opinion, so here's a grain of salt. ;)

[conuly]

All theories are unproven. That's what makes science cool - everything is unproven. Gravity? An unproven theory. Relativity? An unproven theory.

The thing is, theories in science aren't just "ideas". They're complex models about a subject which are backed up by a significant amount of evidence. By the time something becomes a theory, it may not be proven, but there's a lot of proof for it.

[maelorin]

<biology teacher's hat>
science is taught through principles and practice. and, like any other part of education, is built up in stages - each of increasing complexity and depth.

the best that most students will ever understand during their schooling is the basic principles. most people (particularly adults) do not want to be messing about with complicated ideas - that is why religion is so appealing - it seems to make the world less complicated.

no reason why both science and religion can't get along. after all, our science arose out of religion. another example of the bastard child not getting along with it's parent. the 'intelligent design' people are attempting to dress up creationism in science clothing.
</biology teacher's hat>

[maelorin]

<lawyer's hat>
methinks the constitution be but a convenience to some people. [not meaning yourself]
</lawyer's hat>

[maelorin]

<foreigner's hat>
this 'debate' is running over here in australia - with a twist. christian schools are proliferating: and many fundies don't want to be lumbered with this 'evolution nonsense' ...
</foreigner's hat>

[maelorin]

<biologist's hat>
and finally: science is not about proving anything. the basic idea of evolution has proven to be a very robust model for explaining what we observe. it has been tweeked over the past century and a half, but no sign yet that it is fundamentally wrong.

if you want proof, go see a priest. nothing is proven - although it is pretty certain that each of us will die. eventually.
</biologist's hat>

[maelorin]

<theologian's hat>
seems many christian 'authorities' feel the need to be 'right', regardless of the cost.

no reason why a religious view and a secular view of life/reality/whatever cannot be harmonious - or even coexist while diametrically opposed.

science does not claim to answer every question we might pose. indeed, it can only answer the kinds of questions which are amenable to it's methods.

science can tell us about stuff. things we can observe - and repeat, or at least test/falsify. non-stuff, murky nebulous 'why are we here' or 'how should we live' questions are the stuff of philosophy more generally. if one chooses a religious philosophy as the framework for approaching those questions, bully for you. that's what theology/religious philosophy is about.
</theologian's's hat>

[maelorin]

not sure if it will take 30 years to destroy the whole foundation of the economic machinery of the united states of [part of northern] america.

the bible doesn't mention how computers work. or gas turbines. or combine harvesters. or toasters for that matter.

[will refrain from discussing the many inconsistencies in and between the various parts of the various versions of the various translations of the various texts that may or may not be considered part of the bible - depending upon whom you ask. and when. and in which language.]

[gypsyjr.livejournal.com]

It took 30 or 40 years to eliminate God in school, it will take probably 30 or 40 years to get him back.

Uhhhhhm.. isn't this why most churches have Sunday Schools? So kids can learn about religion where they're supposed to? :P

I have no problem with most religious folks, I just wish knuckleheads like this guy would stop acting like the world revolves around them.

[l33tminion]

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," he said, adding that the school board's declaration is just a first step.

ROFLMAO!

This is freedom reduced to the absurd, when the government feels it needs to give self-proclaimed representatives of the stupid and ignorant "a fair chance".

[leora.livejournal.com]

Well, Copernicus was right, but it's not wrong to say the sun revolves around the Earth. According to relativity, all frames of reference are equally valid, just not all are equally useful. So, you can say that the sun revolves around the Earth, and it's not wrong, but it becomes incredibly hard to plot the motion of all the other heavenly bodies. They become incredibly complex. The sun as center model is simply the best model to use to understand the motion of the solar system.

As to Pennsylvannia... don't judge the state by that area. PA is deeply divided. It has some strong liberal cities (like Pittsburgh, where I went to college) and a whole lot of Republican, "religious", rural areas. PA was a swing state, but it ended up voting Democrat in the 2004 election. PA has a lot of potential; it just also has a lot of wackjobs. But if you live in the cities, you don't interact much with the wackjobs.

[conuly]

You're right :) But I still like my line anyway.

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

*strikes Pennsylvania off of the list of states worth living in*

It's just the center parts, I swear! We have liberals! Although, if Rick Santorum gets reelected again, I swear, I'm moving.

On the other side was clergyman Warren Esbach. "I'm opposed to any group who wants to establish a theocracy. I come from a church who fled Germany in the 18th century for religious freedom," Esbach said.

*applauds him* He is obviously a very smart clergyman.

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture,"

XD *dies* Well, at least he admits it!

Who wants to work with me to remove the teachings of that heretic Copernicus from our public schools?

Yes! And we should be more like my CCD teachers and start telling students how the Earth was created 4,000 years ago, and not several billion like those lying, atheist, communist, anti-American science teachers keep trying to tell you.

[ironychan.livejournal.com]

What I find constantly hilarious is the fact that biblical literalism is a 20th century phenomenon. For 95% of the Bible's history, everybody able to actually read it agreed that most of what's in it isn't literally true. Copernicus and Galileo were attacked because their theories required a re-interpretation of scripture, not a non-literal one. Historically, the literal meaning of a bible passage was considered the least important way to interpret it.

When I invent that time machine, we'll get out of here together, ok?

[conuly]

Ooh! Can we get a few thousand people (and a lot of books) to go back and fuck with the timeline, so that by the time we're born things are perfect?

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture..."

I just can't get over that, no matter how many times I read it.

[ruthanolis.livejournal.com]

I think the problem all of those people have is that while they have a valid point, they are going about it totally the wrong way, and using the most incorrect words possible.
You don't want to teach creationism in schools [at least in science]. That's stupid. It's not scientific at all, which is what science class is oddly about.
What should be mentioned is that evolution and the big bang are unproven theories and there are other possibilities that aren't as scientific. And maybe talking about them a little, though without going in huge detail. It is science class after all.

Of course, my personal opinion is, why do they both have to be exclusive? Why can't they both be right? See, I like to think that God [or the creator] would have used the laws and rules he [they] created to create everything else. It seems strange and crazy to think that he just clicked his fingers, created everything and then, suddenly and without warning, these laws that govern everything came into being. Still, my opinion, so here's a grain of salt. ;)

[conuly]

All theories are unproven. That's what makes science cool - everything is unproven. Gravity? An unproven theory. Relativity? An unproven theory.

The thing is, theories in science aren't just "ideas". They're complex models about a subject which are backed up by a significant amount of evidence. By the time something becomes a theory, it may not be proven, but there's a lot of proof for it.

[maelorin]

not sure if it will take 30 years to destroy the whole foundation of the economic machinery of the united states of [part of northern] america.

the bible doesn't mention how computers work. or gas turbines. or combine harvesters. or toasters for that matter.

[will refrain from discussing the many inconsistencies in and between the various parts of the various versions of the various translations of the various texts that may or may not be considered part of the bible - depending upon whom you ask. and when. and in which language.]