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conuly
Link stolen from everyone.
The pastoral fields and white frame houses appear at peace, but this Pennsylvania farm town is deeply at war over teaching Darwin or Christian creationism in its schools.
*strikes Pennsylvania off of the list of states worth living in*
Since last year the school board voted to have high school biology teachers raise doubts about Darwin's 145-year-old theory and suggest an alternative Christian explanation for life. The city has since been deeply riven over the issue of separation of church and state.
What deeply riven? It's like this. YOU DO NOT WANT THE CHURCH MEDDLING IN THE STATE. YOU DO NOT WANT THE STATE MEDDLING IN THE CHURCH. You *really* do not want religion to be some sort of "majority rules" thing (unlike the government) because the last thing you want is for your religion to become the minority and end up persecuted for it.
In January the school board ordered teachers to tell students that Darwinism is not proved, and to teach as well an alternate theory, "intelligent design," which posits that a grand creator, God, is responsible for the development of living organisms.
1. Proven
2. Nothing in science is proven. That's the point of science.
3. If you have to posit things which can't be shown by the evidence, it's not science.
"Darwin's theory is a theory ... not a fact," the school board declared in their statement to the teachers. "Intelligent design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin's view," said the report.
The strength of the scientific method is that there are no facts. Bad school board! Bad!
The command landed in the sprawling, red-brick Dover high school like a bomb. Biology teachers refused to read it, while around 15 students walked out in protest.
Good teachers. Good students. You get a cookie.
"Creation is why we are here," said retired teacher Virginia Doll, defending the introduction of religion into the biology classes.
Um, I suppose...?
"We have a rather religious town, the God we serve is important in everything we do," she said.
You can say the same thing for Iranians, or the Taliban. And, in fact, I will.
On the other side was clergyman Warren Esbach. "I'm opposed to any group who wants to establish a theocracy. I come from a church who fled Germany in the 18th century for religious freedom," Esbach said.
Exactly. *hands out more cookies*
"If we continue to indoctrinate our young people with non-religious principles, we're headed for an internal destruction of this society," he said.
They've been saying that since Copernicus. Ooh...
"Evolution is just a theory and there are other theories," Mummert explained, smiling through his beard.
Do you know what the word theory means, sir? Sir?
There is such a complexity in life, and science wants to hang its hat on a belief that life somehow started -- they say there is no creator, no order ... I believe there is a creator," he said.
*yawns* I hate to do this, but...
So what created the creator?
Now, seriously. Scientifically, the existence of a deity can neither be proven nor disproven, so you're bearing false witness against science.
"Christians are a lot more bold under Bush's leadership, he speaks what a lot of us believe," said Mummert.
*is now very scared*
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," he said, adding that the school board's declaration is just a first step.
*cracks up laughing*
Oh, man. You have to read that again!
It took 30 or 40 years to eliminate God in school, it will take probably 30 or 40 years to get him back. You take a little step first, a little bite, then another little bite and another," said Steve Farrell, a nursery keeper, who dreams of the return to prayer in class.
Oh crap. Maybe there's inhabitable planets in other solar systems I can move to....
So, idea. Who wants to work with me to remove the teachings of that heretic Copernicus from our public schools? I mean, the Bible clearly states that the sun goes around the earth, right? As do the stars, of course. And we can see this every day, just by looking up!
The pastoral fields and white frame houses appear at peace, but this Pennsylvania farm town is deeply at war over teaching Darwin or Christian creationism in its schools.
*strikes Pennsylvania off of the list of states worth living in*
Since last year the school board voted to have high school biology teachers raise doubts about Darwin's 145-year-old theory and suggest an alternative Christian explanation for life. The city has since been deeply riven over the issue of separation of church and state.
What deeply riven? It's like this. YOU DO NOT WANT THE CHURCH MEDDLING IN THE STATE. YOU DO NOT WANT THE STATE MEDDLING IN THE CHURCH. You *really* do not want religion to be some sort of "majority rules" thing (unlike the government) because the last thing you want is for your religion to become the minority and end up persecuted for it.
In January the school board ordered teachers to tell students that Darwinism is not proved, and to teach as well an alternate theory, "intelligent design," which posits that a grand creator, God, is responsible for the development of living organisms.
1. Proven
2. Nothing in science is proven. That's the point of science.
3. If you have to posit things which can't be shown by the evidence, it's not science.
"Darwin's theory is a theory ... not a fact," the school board declared in their statement to the teachers. "Intelligent design is an explanation of the origin of life that differs from Darwin's view," said the report.
The strength of the scientific method is that there are no facts. Bad school board! Bad!
The command landed in the sprawling, red-brick Dover high school like a bomb. Biology teachers refused to read it, while around 15 students walked out in protest.
Good teachers. Good students. You get a cookie.
"Creation is why we are here," said retired teacher Virginia Doll, defending the introduction of religion into the biology classes.
Um, I suppose...?
"We have a rather religious town, the God we serve is important in everything we do," she said.
You can say the same thing for Iranians, or the Taliban. And, in fact, I will.
On the other side was clergyman Warren Esbach. "I'm opposed to any group who wants to establish a theocracy. I come from a church who fled Germany in the 18th century for religious freedom," Esbach said.
Exactly. *hands out more cookies*
"If we continue to indoctrinate our young people with non-religious principles, we're headed for an internal destruction of this society," he said.
They've been saying that since Copernicus. Ooh...
"Evolution is just a theory and there are other theories," Mummert explained, smiling through his beard.
Do you know what the word theory means, sir? Sir?
There is such a complexity in life, and science wants to hang its hat on a belief that life somehow started -- they say there is no creator, no order ... I believe there is a creator," he said.
*yawns* I hate to do this, but...
So what created the creator?
Now, seriously. Scientifically, the existence of a deity can neither be proven nor disproven, so you're bearing false witness against science.
"Christians are a lot more bold under Bush's leadership, he speaks what a lot of us believe," said Mummert.
*is now very scared*
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," he said, adding that the school board's declaration is just a first step.
*cracks up laughing*
Oh, man. You have to read that again!
It took 30 or 40 years to eliminate God in school, it will take probably 30 or 40 years to get him back. You take a little step first, a little bite, then another little bite and another," said Steve Farrell, a nursery keeper, who dreams of the return to prayer in class.
Oh crap. Maybe there's inhabitable planets in other solar systems I can move to....
So, idea. Who wants to work with me to remove the teachings of that heretic Copernicus from our public schools? I mean, the Bible clearly states that the sun goes around the earth, right? As do the stars, of course. And we can see this every day, just by looking up!
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no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 03:28 pm (UTC)Uhhhhhm.. isn't this why most churches have Sunday Schools? So kids can learn about religion where they're supposed to? :P
I have no problem with most religious folks, I just wish knuckleheads like this guy would stop acting like the world revolves around them.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 03:36 pm (UTC)ROFLMAO!
This is freedom reduced to the absurd, when the government feels it needs to give self-proclaimed representatives of the stupid and ignorant "a fair chance".
no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 03:39 pm (UTC)As to Pennsylvannia... don't judge the state by that area. PA is deeply divided. It has some strong liberal cities (like Pittsburgh, where I went to college) and a whole lot of Republican, "religious", rural areas. PA was a swing state, but it ended up voting Democrat in the 2004 election. PA has a lot of potential; it just also has a lot of wackjobs. But if you live in the cities, you don't interact much with the wackjobs.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 03:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 03:47 pm (UTC)It's just the center parts, I swear! We have liberals! Although, if Rick Santorum gets reelected again, I swear, I'm moving.
On the other side was clergyman Warren Esbach. "I'm opposed to any group who wants to establish a theocracy. I come from a church who fled Germany in the 18th century for religious freedom," Esbach said.
*applauds him* He is obviously a very smart clergyman.
"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture,"
XD *dies* Well, at least he admits it!
Who wants to work with me to remove the teachings of that heretic Copernicus from our public schools?
Yes! And we should be more like my CCD teachers and start telling students how the Earth was created 4,000 years ago, and not several billion like those lying, atheist, communist, anti-American science teachers keep trying to tell you.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 05:06 pm (UTC)When I invent that time machine, we'll get out of here together, ok?
no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 05:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 09:00 pm (UTC)I just can't get over that, no matter how many times I read it.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 11:36 pm (UTC)You don't want to teach creationism in schools [at least in science]. That's stupid. It's not scientific at all, which is what science class is oddly about.
What should be mentioned is that evolution and the big bang are unproven theories and there are other possibilities that aren't as scientific. And maybe talking about them a little, though without going in huge detail. It is science class after all.
Of course, my personal opinion is, why do they both have to be exclusive? Why can't they both be right? See, I like to think that God [or the creator] would have used the laws and rules he [they] created to create everything else. It seems strange and crazy to think that he just clicked his fingers, created everything and then, suddenly and without warning, these laws that govern everything came into being. Still, my opinion, so here's a grain of salt. ;)
no subject
Date: 2005-03-28 11:38 pm (UTC)The thing is, theories in science aren't just "ideas". They're complex models about a subject which are backed up by a significant amount of evidence. By the time something becomes a theory, it may not be proven, but there's a lot of proof for it.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 12:25 am (UTC)The thing is though, that most schools teach evolution as fact. They don't make the distinction between proof and theory. Where, if they were teaching science as science sees itself, they would make it obvious that this is only what science believes, complex model or not.
The mainstream Christian idea/belief of Heaven and Hell is also a complex model - this doesn't make it true and infallible however. ;)
Besides, I believe in both evolution and creationism; so modern scientists are only strengthening my faith. =P
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 12:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 12:38 am (UTC)Plus, until someone[-thing] pipes up and says, "Yes, I changed from an ape into a human" then all we really have is conjecture and ideas. We can say that this happened or that happened, but that doesn't change the amount of fact we actually have [or don't have].
I'm still not saying that evolution is wrong though. Just not perfect. =)
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 12:49 am (UTC)However, we have seen evolution in action, many times. We breed animals, and plants, for various attributes. Places which overprescribe antibiotics see resistant strains of various bacteria. This is evolution.
As for the Grand Unified Theory of Everything, it still doesn't exist. People think it should, but it doesn't yet.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 01:02 am (UTC)So where did humans come from? Unless I'm forgetting high school science [which I'll admit is possible [far too often]], according to evolution, we all started out as enzymes and microbes. Becoming human [even eventually] would sort of mean we had to change [evolve into another, more able] species at least once somewhere down the line. I seriously doubt there were homo anythings [or canine/feline/bovine anythings] back at the enzyme days.
[Of course, now I recall that it wasn't apes, it was chimpanzees we are supposed to be closest to right?]
All I'm saying is that as a theory, we can put it into practice, evolution is far from being complete and certified.
It's a theory and should be taught as such. Not as fact.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 01:12 am (UTC)Humans evolved from the same common ancestor as apes, which evolved from the same common ancestor as all primates, which evolved from the same common ancestor as all mammals, which evolved from the same common ancestor as all vertebrates, which evolved from the same common ancestor as all animals, which evolved from the same common ancestor as all life on earth.
No creature suddenly stopped being a chimp (which are a type of ape) and started being a human. Instead, we share a common ancestor.
Consider language. Between German and Dutch, there are any number of mutually intelligent dialects. There is no way, linguistically speaking, to draw the line between "a dialect of German" and "a dialect of Dutch" on the border between Germany and the Netherlands. Yet standard German and standard Dutch are clearly very distinct languages, and not mutually intelligible.
The same thing goes for evolution in a living sense as well. One single-celled organism mutated ever-so-slightly and became the ancestor of all multi-celled organisms. With random mutations and natural selection working hand in hand, all sorts of things evolved - but you can never see a clear line between any species and its ancestor because evolution is, by definition, slow. In another who-knows-how-many generations, humans will have evolved into something completely not recognizable to us today. But it won't be "today all babies born are human, tomorrow they're human+1", it'll be "today the last person to carry this trait died" and so on. Slowly, gradually, like watching grass grow.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 01:36 am (UTC)But maybe it was taught as theory at your school.
Everything I remember basically comes to, "We did this, then that, and then whatever."
There isn't any, "Scientists believe that this happened and then this happened, and this is called the Theory of Evolution."
It is taught as fact. Expecting the majority of high school students to recognise, understand and realise the actual meaning of the word "theory" when they most likely don't even want to be there is amazingly dumb of supposedly intelligent people.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 01:42 am (UTC)2. It is not taught as a fact. The mere fact that it is refered to as the theory of evolution in every textbook I've encountered will suffice to show otherwise. And, considering that they do not cover theories very well, and most people are of the ignorant idea that theories are the same as hypotheses or mere ideas, it is even less likely that any high school student will mistake this for "being taught as fact".
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 01:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 02:44 am (UTC)2. I think differently. That's cool. But the way I see it being taught is as fact. There are no qualifying statements about theories or whatever. I'm actually making a silly point in the end really anyway. My dad, who used to teach high school science, did actually make the point that it's a theory and then explain just what a theory is so there was no confusion. But then, my dad and I think alike when it comes to this, so maybe that explains some of it.
Good thing I'm not a teacher! =)
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 02:45 am (UTC)I'm abrasive and can always find a way to rub people up the wrong way.
It's a ... gift ... =\
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 07:57 am (UTC)the bible doesn't mention how computers work. or gas turbines. or combine harvesters. or toasters for that matter.
[will refrain from discussing the many inconsistencies in and between the various parts of the various versions of the various translations of the various texts that may or may not be considered part of the bible - depending upon whom you ask. and when. and in which language.]
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 08:24 am (UTC)science is taught through principles and practice. and, like any other part of education, is built up in stages - each of increasing complexity and depth.
the best that most students will ever understand during their schooling is the basic principles. most people (particularly adults) do not want to be messing about with complicated ideas - that is why religion is so appealing - it seems to make the world less complicated.
no reason why both science and religion can't get along. after all, our science arose out of religion. another example of the bastard child not getting along with it's parent. the 'intelligent design' people are attempting to dress up creationism in science clothing.
</biology teacher's hat>
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 08:25 am (UTC)methinks the constitution be but a convenience to some people. [not meaning yourself]
</lawyer's hat>
no subject
Date: 2005-03-29 08:27 am (UTC)this 'debate' is running over here in australia - with a twist. christian schools are proliferating: and many fundies don't want to be lumbered with this 'evolution nonsense' ...
</foreigner's hat>