So, if you're even tangentially interested in blogs or people who spend a lot of time

[conuly]

correcting things people think they know about history, you'll soon learn that a perennial topic is "Yes, people drank water in Medieval Europe", followed closely by "They took baths too!" And yeah, they drank a lot of ale and wine... but people today drink a lot of alcohol too, and for much the same reason - we like it! Or if we don't like alcohol we like soda, or coffee, or tea.

People in the middle ages did understand that some water was safe to drink and some wasn't, and they went through considerable lengths to bring clean, potable water to their towns. Not that most of them lived in towns, but in this case, living further from town is a bonus. Less people = less poop.

(Also, while there are other waterborne illnesses, cholera in particular didn't leave India until the 1800s, well into the modern period. I'm not sure it even existed prior to 1817. Please stop telling me earnestly about Snow and cholera in London. Totally different time period, totally different situation, totally irrelevant.)

Anyway, this just popped up on my feed yet again today, and it suddenly sparked a question in my head:

If people supposedly didn't drink water because they didn't want to get sick, what did their animals drink? Surely nobody thinks that medieval peasants were giving their cows and pigs ale? Or do they think that non-human animals are so hardy that they aren't at risk of waterborne illness? Or maybe that people just didn't care if their animals died, like every sheep isn't wealth, or at least a source of food and wool?

(I'm willing to bet that nobody has an answer to this question, but that if I ever ask them, should it come up in the wild, they'll be annoyed at me!)

Comments

[minoanmiss]

That's a good question. The couple of times I can think of it being addressed "Or do they think that non-human animals are so hardy that they aren't at risk of waterborne illness?" was pretty much the answer. People forget we're animals and oher animals aren't necessarily hardier than we are.

[armiphlage]

Humans do have some weaker immune systems than some other mammals, such as bats. Not sure about sheep and other domesticated animals.

[conuly]

One thing they always insist on when looking at instructions for animal care for people who are new to caring for this sort of animal is "access to clean water", especially for young animals.

I suspect domesticated animals, on the whole, aren't that much hardier than humans.

[sovay]

Also, while there are other waterborne illnesses, cholera in particular didn't leave India until the 1800s, well into the modern period. I'm not sure it even existed prior to 1817.

Cholera as a described and identifiable disease existed at least as far back as classical antiquity, but it didn't breach containment into pandemics until the early nineteenth century (wheee). It has no animal hosts but humans, but there are absolutely waterborne illnesses that affect non-human animals. Giardia is the first one that comes to mind.

[conuly]

I'm not sure:

Cholera seems to have first appeared in India and may have been endemic there causing outbreaks as far back as the 16th century. In 1817, however, a particularly virulent outbreak struck in Eastern India in the state of Bengal and quickly spread to other parts of the subcontinent. After spreading to Persia, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia, it reached the Mediterranean in 1823 and died down, ending the first pandemic.

[watervole]

Another reason for the popularity of ale was that it was a good source of calories.

[conuly]

Yup, tastes good, fills you up, what's not to love?

[sabotabby]

Hah. The animal thing never occurred to me.

[conuly]

Yeah, me either until just when I posted this.

[siliconshaman]

Cholera was largely epidemic due to the conditions of the early industrial revolution, but it certainly existed earlier. Alexander the Great died of it.

And Medieval people knew about the risks of water-borne disease. Culpepper's recommends using boiled water, to remove any "miasma".

[conuly]

Who told you he died of cholera? To my knowledge, we don’t know what killed him.

[siliconshaman]

IIRC It wasn't called that, but the symptoms as described match... although not perfectly. It could also have been dysentery.

[conuly]

Well, for what it's worth, Wikipedia doesn't mention cholera as a possibility and says, when discussing a different disease hypothesis: "In the week before his death, historical accounts mention chills, sweats, exhaustion and high fever, typical symptoms of infectious diseases, including typhoid fever".

Those are typical symptoms of infectious disease, but waterborne illness, including cholera, will generally also include diarrhea and possibly vomiting and, from there, the signs of dehydration.

If historical sources don't mention these things then I don't think we can assume he had a disease characterized by them.

[siliconshaman]

Huh.. seems my information was out of date than. Ok, so noted.

[conuly]

That, or wikipedia is wrong. I don't have enough background knowledge on Alexander to have a good guess.

[minoanmiss]

From my Mary Renault days I remember typhoid being the chief suspect to take Big Alex down.

[hilarita]

I feel there's probably a rural/urban split here - you'll try to keep your grazing animals away from bad water, but your backyard chickens get whatever water you can get in your town, even if it tastes revolting and you mostly drink ale or wine or shrub, because frankly, the idea of drunk chickens horrifies.

(I'm not being *entirely* serious here, though I do think that you'd serve chickens some Quite Dubious water before you let them go on the bevvy.)

[conuly]

Most people didn't live in cities or towns in the middle ages, and cities and towns did have some pretty strict laws to protect the water supply, as well as funding to get even more clean water to the residents via new wells and aqueducts.

[the_siobhan]

I hadn't really thought about it much, but I had always assumed that the "drinking weak beer because water wasn't clean" was an urban problem because of population density. And that the main contaminant would be e coli.

[conuly]

Well, it would have been an urban problem, and eventually became one, but people really like having clean water.

[silveradept]

I would guess small beer, if someone were so insistent that nobody, not even the animals, would drink unclean water, since the fermentation and brewing processes are supposed to make an inhospitable environment for pathogens. (Assuming I remember that rightly about brewing and such.)

(The actual answer, that both of us know, involves finding better sources of water or using purification methods (for SCIENCE!))

[conuly]

Assuming I remember that rightly about brewing and such.

Assuming they remember rightly, which honestly, I wouldn't bet on.

[silveradept]

That does not seem very likely, no, if they're coming at this with the idea that nobody drank water.

[conuly]

And a quick check of google suggests that no, if you don't have a still, your ale is not going to have a high enough alcohol content to prevent bacterial growth or mold. The boiling process itself will kill whatever is already in the water, but that doesn't mean more stuff won't end up there.