conuly

My childhood was mostly bad, but it had some really great aspects to it. One of those was that my parents and most of the adults in my life didn't try to use "because I said so" as an excuse for anything. And because of this, I was more willing to trust them if they said they'd need to explain later, if it was lengthy.

I was just barely 2, my birthday is in early August and my father's in late September, when my mother was shopping for a dress for me to wear to his birthday party. I remember this event myself and have heard retellings of it, because apparently the other parents in the store found it so unusual. I hated trying on clothes at that age (and for more than the next decade for that matter), but I knew I needed a dress for the party. My mother was looking through the dresses. I saw one that I liked - it was green, which was a hard sell because my mother just doesn't like the color for some reason I've never understood. But I pointed to it and said something along the lines of, "I like this one!" Then I asked if it cost too much. She told me it was about the same price as the others. Then I asked, "Is it well made?" this was the only term I knew to express the concept that if something is cheaper, but also of poor quality, it will wear out too fast and turn out to be more expensive in the long run. She told me it was fine.

So, I told her I wanted that one. She told me that she'd add it to the group of dresses I'd try on, and if I tried on all of the other dresses nicely, I could try it on last, then she'd consider which to get based on how it looked on me. I agreed. We did this. She was surprised to find it did look pretty good on me, and I got the dress that I wanted.

This struck me as completely sensible and normal. Apparently other people found it very strange. They asked how old I was, and were surprised to find I was two. I know that part of it was that I was a weird child, but part of it was that I was treated with respect and expected to act sensibly. I didn't throw a temper tantrum ever in my toddlerhood, because it never occured to me... I didn't think of it. I didn't learn about temper tantrums until I was older, and using yelling and screaming just would seem such an odd thing to do.

From:

I'm sorry but sometimes you need to put things that way, a child can't always understand or reason and a child needs to know that someone is in charge that can be trusted and has good judgement, a child isn't born with good judgement, it is something that has to be learned, and there are times when they must do things because the parent says so.

It doesn't happen often, but that trust in the parent needs to be there. My child is my child, not my peer, not my friend, not my toy. I am responsible for my child's health and well being, both physical and emotional and that means they have to trust me and my judgement.

Structure IS important, discipline is important. It is within that framework that a child has the safety to grow and learn.

From:

conuly

No, you don't need to put things like that. Ever. Children don't learn good judgment from being - and note that the author says that this should always be the way, not even just sometimes - told "because I said so" is a good reason. They learn good judgment by being told why things need to be done. You need to stay away from the electric socket because it hurts, you need to keep out of traffic because cars can kill, you need to stay away from dogs because they get scared.

Structure IS important, discipline is important. It is within that framework that a child has the safety to grow and learn.

I never said otherwise. What I said is that "Because I said so" is not a reason - and it's not. I wouldn't accept that nonsense from the government, and as a child I didn't accept it from my parents either. "Becuase I said so", to me, translates instantly into "I don't have a reason, so you don't really have to do it, because there is no reason". And that's exactly the response my parents got every time they tried that stupid line on me.

From:

Well, then, it's a good thing I am not raising your children, and you aren't raising mine.

I thought because I said so was a horrible thing, until I had to use it. I also thought I would always be able to breastfeed, that my children would be doing x, y, z at certain times, and I would say and do certain things. But then reality set in and I realized that flexibility was key.

Your children may do better differently, in fact, even my three children have different styles of dealing with different issues.

From:

conuly

Well, if you'd tried to raise me, I can guarantee you would've had the same problems my parents had - which involved a lot of my yelling, screaming, hitting, biting, and generally fighting against being treated as though I was stupid.

Your kids? Aren't stupid. At least, I assume they aren't from what you've said. What questions are so hard to explain that you cannot answer them?

From:

conuly

Here's something else. As a child, people who tried that nonsensical line on me automatically got booted into my "I don't trust you" list. They could've beaten the crap out of me, and I wouldn't've done a thing they said.

This is either because I was a stubborn little kid, or because I don't like listening to stupid people (which is exactly what I thought of people who wouldn't explain things), or simply as a matter of principle, but it was the absolute worst thing to say to me. Ever.

Most of the kids this parent is talking about have ADD or ADHD. Many, many kids with ADD exhibit spectrum traits - and from the people I'm talking to on

asperger, my reaction towards "Because I said so" is typical.

So advice which I consider wrong for any parent is likely to be doubly wrong for these kids.

From:

l33tminion

What a horrible, self-righteous, arrogant git. I'm glad his children succeeded in spite of him. And now he's advising others to do the same, probably to assure himself that his "too harsh" methods were correct.

From:

His son doesn't sound successful to me. He works six days a week for long hours at backbreaking work... that's success? Does he even know how to relax and enjoy life? Is he going to burn himself out within a decade? What will he fall back on when his body fails him? Being able to work to accomplish the goals you set for yourself is important, but so is having goals beyond just work. It sounds like he put so much emphasis on the need for work, that his children's self-esteem got tied to being able to work. Work isn't in and of itself a value - it's what it accomplishes that is. I've known workaholics, and it's not a pretty picture.

From:

l33tminion

Agreed.

From:

lakidaa.livejournal.com

meh.

My mom used the because I said so, but only when you could count our ages on two hands, in decimal system.

Then I started saying why. :P

From:

These children will perseverate about the injustice of being required to clean up their room before they go out. If you get into an argument with them, they will convince themselves that they are right. Many kids with ADD/ADHD love to argue - it's stimulating to them - so verbal arguments will go on and on, ad nauseum.

Sounds like punishment for being smart. Or punishment for having ADD. Completely unfair.

I wasn't a kicker and screamer, but I was sneaky. If someone said "Because I said so" when I was a kid, I usually found a way to do it anyway, at another time, when they couldn't tell me no.

My mom never spanked me for playing with a socket, but the way she acted the one time I did scared me enough not to play with it for a long time. That what usually worked on me- seeing my mother scared. I kind of understood that I would find out why she was scared eventually, or I could ask someone else. Guess I was a weird kid, in that if I figured out that someone didn't want to tell, I didn't ask them again.

From:

*Sigh* Please forgive the ugliness of the post.

From:

eofs.livejournal.com

Wow I'm glad I'm not his kid.

From:

rantinan.livejournal.com

urge to kill rising. Because i said so is such a fucking waste of time. that ALWAYS led me to an arguement which i would win, if not by any other reason then by proving they didnt have any evidence. Which would usualy end up in further punishment from the teacher concerned. Which led to being classified the biggest problem child at my primarty school. My parents were smart enough to not try that once I'd reached age 3 and a half and could out argue em on petty shit.

From:

conuly

Exactly. I think back on my childhood, and I honestly can't remember ever backing down from that argument - I'm probably wrong, but.

From:

My childhood was mostly bad, but it had some really great aspects to it. One of those was that my parents and most of the adults in my life didn't try to use "because I said so" as an excuse for anything. And because of this, I was more willing to trust them if they said they'd need to explain later, if it was lengthy.

I was just barely 2, my birthday is in early August and my father's in late September, when my mother was shopping for a dress for me to wear to his birthday party. I remember this event myself and have heard retellings of it, because apparently the other parents in the store found it so unusual. I hated trying on clothes at that age (and for more than the next decade for that matter), but I knew I needed a dress for the party. My mother was looking through the dresses. I saw one that I liked - it was green, which was a hard sell because my mother just doesn't like the color for some reason I've never understood. But I pointed to it and said something along the lines of, "I like this one!" Then I asked if it cost too much. She told me it was about the same price as the others. Then I asked, "Is it well made?" this was the only term I knew to express the concept that if something is cheaper, but also of poor quality, it will wear out too fast and turn out to be more expensive in the long run. She told me it was fine.

So, I told her I wanted that one. She told me that she'd add it to the group of dresses I'd try on, and if I tried on all of the other dresses nicely, I could try it on last, then she'd consider which to get based on how it looked on me. I agreed. We did this. She was surprised to find it did look pretty good on me, and I got the dress that I wanted.

This struck me as completely sensible and normal. Apparently other people found it very strange. They asked how old I was, and were surprised to find I was two. I know that part of it was that I was a weird child, but part of it was that I was treated with respect and expected to act sensibly. I didn't throw a temper tantrum ever in my toddlerhood, because it never occured to me... I didn't think of it. I didn't learn about temper tantrums until I was older, and using yelling and screaming just would seem such an odd thing to do.

From:

I'm sorry but sometimes you need to put things that way, a child can't always understand or reason and a child needs to know that someone is in charge that can be trusted and has good judgement, a child isn't born with good judgement, it is something that has to be learned, and there are times when they must do things because the parent says so.

It doesn't happen often, but that trust in the parent needs to be there. My child is my child, not my peer, not my friend, not my toy. I am responsible for my child's health and well being, both physical and emotional and that means they have to trust me and my judgement.

Structure IS important, discipline is important. It is within that framework that a child has the safety to grow and learn.

From:

conuly

No, you don't need to put things like that. Ever. Children don't learn good judgment from being - and note that the author says that this should always be the way, not even just sometimes - told "because I said so" is a good reason. They learn good judgment by being told why things need to be done. You need to stay away from the electric socket because it hurts, you need to keep out of traffic because cars can kill, you need to stay away from dogs because they get scared.

Structure IS important, discipline is important. It is within that framework that a child has the safety to grow and learn.

I never said otherwise. What I said is that "Because I said so" is not a reason - and it's not. I wouldn't accept that nonsense from the government, and as a child I didn't accept it from my parents either. "Becuase I said so", to me, translates instantly into "I don't have a reason, so you don't really have to do it, because there is no reason". And that's exactly the response my parents got every time they tried that stupid line on me.

From:

Well, then, it's a good thing I am not raising your children, and you aren't raising mine.

I thought because I said so was a horrible thing, until I had to use it. I also thought I would always be able to breastfeed, that my children would be doing x, y, z at certain times, and I would say and do certain things. But then reality set in and I realized that flexibility was key.

Your children may do better differently, in fact, even my three children have different styles of dealing with different issues.

From:

conuly

Well, if you'd tried to raise me, I can guarantee you would've had the same problems my parents had - which involved a lot of my yelling, screaming, hitting, biting, and generally fighting against being treated as though I was stupid.

Your kids? Aren't stupid. At least, I assume they aren't from what you've said. What questions are so hard to explain that you cannot answer them?

From:

conuly

Here's something else. As a child, people who tried that nonsensical line on me automatically got booted into my "I don't trust you" list. They could've beaten the crap out of me, and I wouldn't've done a thing they said.

This is either because I was a stubborn little kid, or because I don't like listening to stupid people (which is exactly what I thought of people who wouldn't explain things), or simply as a matter of principle, but it was the absolute worst thing to say to me. Ever.

Most of the kids this parent is talking about have ADD or ADHD. Many, many kids with ADD exhibit spectrum traits - and from the people I'm talking to on

asperger, my reaction towards "Because I said so" is typical.

So advice which I consider wrong for any parent is likely to be doubly wrong for these kids.

From:

l33tminion

What a horrible, self-righteous, arrogant git. I'm glad his children succeeded in spite of him. And now he's advising others to do the same, probably to assure himself that his "too harsh" methods were correct.

From:

His son doesn't sound successful to me. He works six days a week for long hours at backbreaking work... that's success? Does he even know how to relax and enjoy life? Is he going to burn himself out within a decade? What will he fall back on when his body fails him? Being able to work to accomplish the goals you set for yourself is important, but so is having goals beyond just work. It sounds like he put so much emphasis on the need for work, that his children's self-esteem got tied to being able to work. Work isn't in and of itself a value - it's what it accomplishes that is. I've known workaholics, and it's not a pretty picture.

From:

l33tminion

Agreed.

From:

lakidaa.livejournal.com

meh.

My mom used the because I said so, but only when you could count our ages on two hands, in decimal system.

Then I started saying why. :P

From:

These children will perseverate about the injustice of being required to clean up their room before they go out. If you get into an argument with them, they will convince themselves that they are right. Many kids with ADD/ADHD love to argue - it's stimulating to them - so verbal arguments will go on and on, ad nauseum.

Sounds like punishment for being smart. Or punishment for having ADD. Completely unfair.

I wasn't a kicker and screamer, but I was sneaky. If someone said "Because I said so" when I was a kid, I usually found a way to do it anyway, at another time, when they couldn't tell me no.

My mom never spanked me for playing with a socket, but the way she acted the one time I did scared me enough not to play with it for a long time. That what usually worked on me- seeing my mother scared. I kind of understood that I would find out why she was scared eventually, or I could ask someone else. Guess I was a weird kid, in that if I figured out that someone didn't want to tell, I didn't ask them again.

From: