So, longish story to ask a short question...

[conuly]

Today, we were in the bookstore, and Ana was being *very* well-behaved, especially considering that she hadn't yet had her lunch or her nap, and was late for both. And in order to get by somebody, she stops, says "Scuse me. Scuse me peez!" and, after he moved, went "Thank you!" (I'm not sure what she does at the start of words like thank you, but it may very well be an eth, I've been working hard on that sound with her since forever.)

And the other kid's mom boggled, like she'd never seen this sort of thing before. "She said excuse me, that's so cute! Wow!"

Well, the only thing I could've said (but didn't) was that of course she did, and I'd've said the same thing, except I'd've tacked a "sweetie" on the end probably. What I said instead was the vague "well, people love a mannerly child", which is certainly true. Even people who hate kids love mannerly children - probably because they start out with lower expectations, or because the other kind is even more irritating to them than to people who simply tolerate or even like kids. (People also seem to love cute children, mannerly or not, and it gets annoying when your niece is throwing a tantrum and people come running up to cheer her out of it. It's just, dudes, leave her alone, she's fine with me watching her, she doesn't need to think that lying on the floor screaming is going to get people to play games with her.)

But I digress. The point is, I often see posts on LiveJournal regarding the use of endearments such as "sweetie", "honey", "sugar", "dear", etc. by people who don't know you. The people making these posts are generally of the view that this isn't acceptable except from people who know you well, and who have "earned the right" to call you by something other than your name - if they don't know your name, they can't call you anything.

Some of those posts are complaining about creepy guys who are also making obvious passes at you. But the rest... Even if we cut out the creepy guy factor, there's clearly a lot of people in this world who consider it normal to use those sorts of words with people they don't know.

It's rather like when somebody says "geshundeit" instead of "bless you". Why get offended because their habit is different? They're not doing it to be rude, and it's all rather silly anyway since none of us believe that evil demons are gonna get us if we're not careful.

So, I thought I'd clarify my position: I use the word sweetie with children as filler for their names. I use the same word with adults as a filler for "you idiot". I use the word ducky when speaking to people because I think whatever they're upset about is either their fault, or not worth being upset about. I occasionally use words like "little one" or "honey" when talking to young animals and very young children - by the time they're in school, sweetie is about it.

I'd also like to ask what other people do, because I'm curious.

Oh, side-note, something I've noticed. It's clear, reading my posts lately, that race has been on my mind a bit. Sorry about that *blushes*

But I have an observation. When white people want to say that they think Ana is cute, they'll turn to her, say "HI!", talk a bit, then turn to whomever she's with and say "She's so cute" (beautiful, pretty, whatever). They might compliment her specifically on her hair or her clothes, to her face, but not on her looks - "I like your hair, did your mommy do it?" but not "You're very cute, you know." I mean, they might do the latter, but not so often. Black people sometimes take that method I just described, but very often (and this doesn't seem to happen with white people) will give the compliment by calling out "Hey pretty!" (beautiful, cutie, whatever) to her, then talking to her adult. Older Chinese people who speak English point at her a lot and fumble for English words, and I *think* they mean they think she's cute, but it's hard to tell. I'm also not sure they're Chinese, I'm just guessing.

Just an observation - and, of course, there's overlap from the standard white method into other races. Not so much in the method a lot of black people seem to prefer. Tell the truth, I like that form better - it seems friendlier, though eventually I'm sure it'll give her a swelled head. If it keeps up. Right now, she doesn't notice much. When she does, though, she's *finally* caught on to the idea that if people smile at you and say something nice, you're supposed to say "thank you". That's a tough concept for a little kid, since as far as she knows she hasn't gotten anything and nobody's done anything for her.

Edit: White people are also *far* more likely to deliver the compliment sideways, by turning to a friend and saying very loudly that "she's so cute!" Other races do this as well, but not, as near as I can tell, to that extent. But the first form I mentioned is definitely the more common one.

Comments

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I think you've summed up yourself why people object to it. When you say "sweetie" you mean "you idiot" ie, you're insulting/patronising them. So people object because they find it rude.

Of course, I'm coming from a culture where asking someone's name directly is pretty much a social no-no, so maybe I just have a skewed attitude.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

"I'd also like to ask what other people do, because I'm curious."

I usually don't use endearment-type terms at all -- I don't remember really hearing them when I was growing up, either. They always seemed more like something a person with more gender awareness or sexuality would use, somehow.

The one situation I do use endearment-type words in is my relationship. Not naturally, though. My SO started using them early on -- sweetie, sweetheart, my dear, etc. -- and I gradually learned to echo the same words back. (I think he might have complained that I didn't use them. I *know* he complained I didn't use his name in speaking to him.) Whenever I'm too stressed over the relationship, or if I don't feel trusting enough, that whole part of my vocabulary disappears.

I don't compliment kids, or generally notice their appearance, so that aspect is out. (I usually am focused on tolerating the vocal noises, since their high-pitched voices are uncomfortable for me.) I almost never compliment adults either, but once in a while I will notice something that is a visual stim for me -- like a colorful necklace or shirt -- and express that I "really like" it. That at least explains why I appear to be staring at whatever it is that has caught my eye, at least... *grin*

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

I don't usually object at people, but I do get uncomfortable with it sometimes. Not because it crossed my mind that it might be insulting, but because I am only used to hearing such words in a relationship context, and since I can't read the intent of others all that well, I get a creepy feeling of "does this person like me inappropriately or something?"

[conuly]

But not everybody *does* use sweetie in that sense. Even if they did, most people catch on to all the other cues that show they're being insulted, don't they?

[conuly]

I wish more people wouldn't compliment kids - I hate saying it, but it gets annoying having to keep stopping and say "yes, thank you" to people.

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

*Gesundheit.

:P

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

Mostly, it depends on context for when/whether I care to be called sweetie-honey-baby-sugarpie.  Old people can get away with it nearly wholesale.  Someone who clearly just does that, also - someone who has that sort of weird motherly thing going on.  I don't take offense.

When it's used sarcastically, condescendingly, or creepily, that's when my hackles rise.

I use such things to my sweeties, rarely if ever to anybody else, because I pretty much only use it to indicate that I feel comfortable enough around that person, and I don't feel comfortable enough around a whooole lotta people.

[conuly]

I knew I was wrong, but I didn't know where that H went.

*hugs*

I'm sorry about Arwen. I'd hoped she was getting better, it sounded like it.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

Oh, and:

a) I only picked up using such language with my sweeties because they use it.  So did an ex.  Kind of like verbal smoothening stuff.

b) I very rarely compliment kids; if I do so, it's when we're all generally hanging out, and so I have a chance to interact more often.  (I complimented a mom on her child whilst we were all at a pre-wedding party, because she was just darling.  This after about an hour or so of interacting with her, indirectly.)

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

Discounting the creepy guy factor race actually does factor into my tolerance for being called 'sweetie' etc. When I lived in DC (caucasian minority) I just got used to african american women (and some men) calling me 'sweetie'/'honey' as part of normal interaction. I've never tried to figure out why but I always assumed it was in part because of age/status (I was a student) and in part just how they addressed strangers while still being friendly. Also, like someone else mentioned, old people of any race/gender can call me whatever they want without offending me but I think that stems from the age/status thing too.

[sgt-pooh.livejournal.com]

I use Honey, Baby, Sweetheart, Hunny(Pooh reference), all of that. I have since I was a kid. I don't use it with strangers, I don't think, but I may if it's a child. I don't pay that much attention to it, unless I get called on it by someone on the internet.

I grew up in a small Texas town, so that may have something to do with it. I don't mean a thing offensive by it, it's just the way I talk. If I want to be ugly to you, I'll won't call you anything endearing.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

Argh, first I tried to edit my comment, then the new version was misplaced...let's try again.

Argh double again. I KNOW I copied the text, but evidently Windows didn't grasp that, so now it's gone. Grrraaarrghh, headdesk!

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

Well, it hasn't been done yet. I am sitting here debating making an appt for tonight. The fact that she isn't deathly ill is good and bad - she shouldn't have to go through that, but I can't deal with having her PTS if she isn't.

But, it will probably happen tonight.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I'm much more likely to mind endearments from strangers on the internet than face to face. Partly because it seems to be used *much* more as a method of condescension online.

People who habitually call strangers "hon" offline -- well, most of the time it appears to be a verbal tic, like "like" or "uh" or "y'know". They're not doing it consciously, so I don't take offense unless they're being offensive in some other way. Online, 95% of the time if someone I don't know calls me "sweetie" or similar, they're doing it purposefully to be obnoxious.

[rachelkachel]

I don't use any of those words, and nobody uses them for me except very rarely random strangers here in Atlanta. I don't think any of my family use them either, maybe an occasional "hon" between my parents.

I kind of wish I did have the habit of using it for children, because otherwise I never know what to call them because I tend not to remember their names when they're in large groups.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

I almost always reserve endearments for my partner and my cats. Once in a blue moon I might use one to a friend in a teasing manner. For example, if a friend does something stupid, I might say, "Smooth move, my dear." But I only do that with people who know me really well and know it's an affectionate form of teasing and not an insult.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I tend to use "sweetpea" with children and "lovey" with adults. I don't do it to be insulting, I was just raised in a culture where it's totally okay. That, and I'm bad with names, so using an endearment gives me needed moments to remember a name.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I think you've summed up yourself why people object to it. When you say "sweetie" you mean "you idiot" ie, you're insulting/patronising them. So people object because they find it rude.

Of course, I'm coming from a culture where asking someone's name directly is pretty much a social no-no, so maybe I just have a skewed attitude.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

"I'd also like to ask what other people do, because I'm curious."

I usually don't use endearment-type terms at all -- I don't remember really hearing them when I was growing up, either. They always seemed more like something a person with more gender awareness or sexuality would use, somehow.

The one situation I do use endearment-type words in is my relationship. Not naturally, though. My SO started using them early on -- sweetie, sweetheart, my dear, etc. -- and I gradually learned to echo the same words back. (I think he might have complained that I didn't use them. I *know* he complained I didn't use his name in speaking to him.) Whenever I'm too stressed over the relationship, or if I don't feel trusting enough, that whole part of my vocabulary disappears.

I don't compliment kids, or generally notice their appearance, so that aspect is out. (I usually am focused on tolerating the vocal noises, since their high-pitched voices are uncomfortable for me.) I almost never compliment adults either, but once in a while I will notice something that is a visual stim for me -- like a colorful necklace or shirt -- and express that I "really like" it. That at least explains why I appear to be staring at whatever it is that has caught my eye, at least... *grin*

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

I don't usually object at people, but I do get uncomfortable with it sometimes. Not because it crossed my mind that it might be insulting, but because I am only used to hearing such words in a relationship context, and since I can't read the intent of others all that well, I get a creepy feeling of "does this person like me inappropriately or something?"

[conuly]

But not everybody *does* use sweetie in that sense. Even if they did, most people catch on to all the other cues that show they're being insulted, don't they?

[conuly]

I wish more people wouldn't compliment kids - I hate saying it, but it gets annoying having to keep stopping and say "yes, thank you" to people.

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

*Gesundheit.

:P

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

Mostly, it depends on context for when/whether I care to be called sweetie-honey-baby-sugarpie.  Old people can get away with it nearly wholesale.  Someone who clearly just does that, also - someone who has that sort of weird motherly thing going on.  I don't take offense.

When it's used sarcastically, condescendingly, or creepily, that's when my hackles rise.

I use such things to my sweeties, rarely if ever to anybody else, because I pretty much only use it to indicate that I feel comfortable enough around that person, and I don't feel comfortable enough around a whooole lotta people.

[conuly]

I knew I was wrong, but I didn't know where that H went.

*hugs*

I'm sorry about Arwen. I'd hoped she was getting better, it sounded like it.

[ladytabitha.livejournal.com]

Oh, and:

a) I only picked up using such language with my sweeties because they use it.  So did an ex.  Kind of like verbal smoothening stuff.

b) I very rarely compliment kids; if I do so, it's when we're all generally hanging out, and so I have a chance to interact more often.  (I complimented a mom on her child whilst we were all at a pre-wedding party, because she was just darling.  This after about an hour or so of interacting with her, indirectly.)

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

Discounting the creepy guy factor race actually does factor into my tolerance for being called 'sweetie' etc. When I lived in DC (caucasian minority) I just got used to african american women (and some men) calling me 'sweetie'/'honey' as part of normal interaction. I've never tried to figure out why but I always assumed it was in part because of age/status (I was a student) and in part just how they addressed strangers while still being friendly. Also, like someone else mentioned, old people of any race/gender can call me whatever they want without offending me but I think that stems from the age/status thing too.

[sgt-pooh.livejournal.com]

I use Honey, Baby, Sweetheart, Hunny(Pooh reference), all of that. I have since I was a kid. I don't use it with strangers, I don't think, but I may if it's a child. I don't pay that much attention to it, unless I get called on it by someone on the internet.

I grew up in a small Texas town, so that may have something to do with it. I don't mean a thing offensive by it, it's just the way I talk. If I want to be ugly to you, I'll won't call you anything endearing.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

Argh, first I tried to edit my comment, then the new version was misplaced...let's try again.

Argh double again. I KNOW I copied the text, but evidently Windows didn't grasp that, so now it's gone. Grrraaarrghh, headdesk!

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

Well, it hasn't been done yet. I am sitting here debating making an appt for tonight. The fact that she isn't deathly ill is good and bad - she shouldn't have to go through that, but I can't deal with having her PTS if she isn't.

But, it will probably happen tonight.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I'm much more likely to mind endearments from strangers on the internet than face to face. Partly because it seems to be used *much* more as a method of condescension online.

People who habitually call strangers "hon" offline -- well, most of the time it appears to be a verbal tic, like "like" or "uh" or "y'know". They're not doing it consciously, so I don't take offense unless they're being offensive in some other way. Online, 95% of the time if someone I don't know calls me "sweetie" or similar, they're doing it purposefully to be obnoxious.

[rachelkachel]

I don't use any of those words, and nobody uses them for me except very rarely random strangers here in Atlanta. I don't think any of my family use them either, maybe an occasional "hon" between my parents.

I kind of wish I did have the habit of using it for children, because otherwise I never know what to call them because I tend not to remember their names when they're in large groups.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

I almost always reserve endearments for my partner and my cats. Once in a blue moon I might use one to a friend in a teasing manner. For example, if a friend does something stupid, I might say, "Smooth move, my dear." But I only do that with people who know me really well and know it's an affectionate form of teasing and not an insult.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I tend to use "sweetpea" with children and "lovey" with adults. I don't do it to be insulting, I was just raised in a culture where it's totally okay. That, and I'm bad with names, so using an endearment gives me needed moments to remember a name.