Tres annoyed.

[conuly]

We've all seen this, right?

Well, somebody posted it in asperger. And I replied, pointing out things I thought were useful (noticing when your kid is likely to go into meltdown is a Good Thing, for example), the ones I thought were tragically misguided (not every autistic person is visually oriented, and pretending that this is the case is damaging to those who aren't, no matter how good your intentions), and, of course, commenting on the ones I thought were dead wrong (you know how I feel about person-first language, right?).

She deleted her post, didn't reply to me.

Okay, fine. That's her perogative.

What I didn't realize until today was that she followed this up by posting one of those "I'm leaving!!!!" posts afterwards. I really hate those. In the course of this post, she called us sour, judgmental, intolerant, angry at the world... well, she called me that, I suppose. Whatever. That's pretty much par for the course with these posts, so, while I'm irked, and perfectly willing to argue with her (hey, I might as well get some use out of this nasty mood... that's probably a bad sign, come to think of it) I'm not especially upset.

But then she tells me that I was unnecessarily rude in my reply to her, and that if I can't say anything nice, I shouldn't say anything at all.

WTF?

She's nice, but I'm horribly rude (and judgmental, and sour, and angry at the world, and a host of other bad things)?

See, now I'm actually pissed.

Comments

[ancarett]

So, where's her patience and unconditional love? Or at least a little respect, eh?

Sounds like she could have benefited from a closer reading of the basic precepts in the article she posted. (And, like you, I know that hardly all autistic people have limited vocabularies or are visual thinkers so lists like those irk me as well!)

[conuly]

Well, I do understand that the article is geared towards the parents of more classically autistic children - which means that they are much more likely to have limited vocabularies (more so than everybody's vocabulary is limited, that is) and have serious problems with idioms and so on.

But still.

[rantinan.livejournal.com]

Shrugs.. I simply dont hit up that comunity much any more because doing so gives me a tendency to want to punch NTs espicaly american ones in the face till they colapse or my fist shatters. Not exactly healthy, but that's not the comunity's problem it's MINE. and I deal with it as such.

[conuly]

The comm does have a strong anti-nt streak at times. I filter that out of my perceptions.

[unico-love.livejournal.com]

I never really understand those posts announcing that one is angry and leaving... It seems like that would only create more problems, negativity, etc.

[conuly]

The vast majority of the time, I think that's the point.

[unico-love.livejournal.com]

I don't think I could ever handle that emotionally... Not fun sounding:(

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

I feel they want attention, possibly even the admission they were treated badly followed by begging them to stay. Phht

[latenightparty.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I think it's some way of acting petulant, getting attention and guilt-tripping everyone.

[allassein.livejournal.com]

Ah, I was wondering what was up with that omg ur meen im leeving post. (Pardon the leet sarcasm.)

In the time I've read you in communities and at your lj, I have never known you to be any of those things. Well, maybe angry at the world on occasion, but I don't consider that negative or unreasonable.

And of course I disagree with the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" rule being a universally good idea. Especially in places that I think are suited for discussion, rather than simple back-patting and many posts all consisting of one word. ("Word!")

[conuly]

Well, I'll step up and say I might have been a bit more... emphatic than strictly necessary. But I wasn't as rude or sour as I've been made out to be.

[allassein.livejournal.com]

But an emphatic and not entirely agreeing response from someone is not, in my opinion, a good reason to delete a post and leave a community.

[conuly]

If she'd done that, that'd be fine.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Awww, poor little kid. She couldn't come in as the more-informed savior spreading information and being respected as the sage she is. How cruel you all were to not realize that she is the most informed, best source of guidance the community could possibly have.

[conuly]

Let's not be too harsh. She really did mean well. I think.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Why not be too harsh? I'm not saying she doesn't mean well. I'm saying when that makes her fall flat on her face, she picks up her toys and goes home rather than being willing to learn ~why~ that made her fall flat on her face.

That strikes me as typical - I want to be admired and respected, and if I'm wrong,. you're mean for pointing it out, rather than helping me to become someone people will admire and respect.

I thought I was allowed to pick on bad traits. I'm not saying she's a bad person - just that she has a bad trait. One I feel I understand, because I want to be admired and respected. But you have to temper that with a willingness to earn that and with a willingness to be disagreed with and disliked. I tend to earn a good batch of admiration, respect, dislike, and disgust. That's life.

[idonotlikepeas]

An additional wrinkle: someone going into an Asperger's community and saying "Hey, you folks have problems with your social skills" may be Missing An Important Clue.

[rantinan.livejournal.com]

Heheheh.. NO Freaking kidding. When they handed out social skills, i thaught they were asking smoking or not smoking, and said non merci!

[dkmnow.livejournal.com]

Are you saying you don't like being referred to as a "person with femaleness" (http://web.syr.edu/%7Ejisincla/person_first.htm)? :-p

Seriously though, I don't think I could stand to read that one again, even despite its occasional accidental factualness. IIRC, aside from the general saccharinoid drippiness, what really heebied my jeebies was the all too familiar presumption/pretense of the martyr-for-the-helpless class: "We must speak for those who cannot speak for themselves." Sounds oh-so-noble, but rarely serves anything other than the egos of those who proclaim it.

It's a pretty universal human failing that we fail to recognize the value of any mode of communication beyond that which we ourselves have assimilated. But neurotypicals are rarely forced to confront or even question that failing within themselves. Their bias against the unfamiliar or stigmatized goes unrecognized and unchallenged, and is thus that bias left to rule their interactions. We all have to grapple with such things, of course, but most spectrumites eventually find it impossible to survive without confronting such biases within themselves. Most NTs don't bother - because they don't have to.

For me, any neurotypical who purports to "speak for autistics" had better be prepared to demonstrate that they have, in fact, learned how to listen.

[malantha.livejournal.com]

I love it when people post those follow-up "I'm leaving!!!" posts and disable commenting. Really. It's fun.

[ancarett]

So, where's her patience and unconditional love? Or at least a little respect, eh?

Sounds like she could have benefited from a closer reading of the basic precepts in the article she posted. (And, like you, I know that hardly all autistic people have limited vocabularies or are visual thinkers so lists like those irk me as well!)

[conuly]

Well, I do understand that the article is geared towards the parents of more classically autistic children - which means that they are much more likely to have limited vocabularies (more so than everybody's vocabulary is limited, that is) and have serious problems with idioms and so on.

But still.

[rantinan.livejournal.com]

Shrugs.. I simply dont hit up that comunity much any more because doing so gives me a tendency to want to punch NTs espicaly american ones in the face till they colapse or my fist shatters. Not exactly healthy, but that's not the comunity's problem it's MINE. and I deal with it as such.

[conuly]

The comm does have a strong anti-nt streak at times. I filter that out of my perceptions.

[unico-love.livejournal.com]

I never really understand those posts announcing that one is angry and leaving... It seems like that would only create more problems, negativity, etc.

[conuly]

The vast majority of the time, I think that's the point.

[unico-love.livejournal.com]

I don't think I could ever handle that emotionally... Not fun sounding:(

[beccak1961.livejournal.com]

I feel they want attention, possibly even the admission they were treated badly followed by begging them to stay. Phht

[latenightparty.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I think it's some way of acting petulant, getting attention and guilt-tripping everyone.

[allassein.livejournal.com]

Ah, I was wondering what was up with that omg ur meen im leeving post. (Pardon the leet sarcasm.)

In the time I've read you in communities and at your lj, I have never known you to be any of those things. Well, maybe angry at the world on occasion, but I don't consider that negative or unreasonable.

And of course I disagree with the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" rule being a universally good idea. Especially in places that I think are suited for discussion, rather than simple back-patting and many posts all consisting of one word. ("Word!")

[conuly]

Well, I'll step up and say I might have been a bit more... emphatic than strictly necessary. But I wasn't as rude or sour as I've been made out to be.

[allassein.livejournal.com]

But an emphatic and not entirely agreeing response from someone is not, in my opinion, a good reason to delete a post and leave a community.

[conuly]

If she'd done that, that'd be fine.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Awww, poor little kid. She couldn't come in as the more-informed savior spreading information and being respected as the sage she is. How cruel you all were to not realize that she is the most informed, best source of guidance the community could possibly have.

[conuly]

Let's not be too harsh. She really did mean well. I think.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Why not be too harsh? I'm not saying she doesn't mean well. I'm saying when that makes her fall flat on her face, she picks up her toys and goes home rather than being willing to learn ~why~ that made her fall flat on her face.

That strikes me as typical - I want to be admired and respected, and if I'm wrong,. you're mean for pointing it out, rather than helping me to become someone people will admire and respect.

I thought I was allowed to pick on bad traits. I'm not saying she's a bad person - just that she has a bad trait. One I feel I understand, because I want to be admired and respected. But you have to temper that with a willingness to earn that and with a willingness to be disagreed with and disliked. I tend to earn a good batch of admiration, respect, dislike, and disgust. That's life.

[idonotlikepeas]

An additional wrinkle: someone going into an Asperger's community and saying "Hey, you folks have problems with your social skills" may be Missing An Important Clue.

[rantinan.livejournal.com]

Heheheh.. NO Freaking kidding. When they handed out social skills, i thaught they were asking smoking or not smoking, and said non merci!

[dkmnow.livejournal.com]

Are you saying you don't like being referred to as a "person with femaleness" (http://web.syr.edu/%7Ejisincla/person_first.htm)? :-p

Seriously though, I don't think I could stand to read that one again, even despite its occasional accidental factualness. IIRC, aside from the general saccharinoid drippiness, what really heebied my jeebies was the all too familiar presumption/pretense of the martyr-for-the-helpless class: "We must speak for those who cannot speak for themselves." Sounds oh-so-noble, but rarely serves anything other than the egos of those who proclaim it.

It's a pretty universal human failing that we fail to recognize the value of any mode of communication beyond that which we ourselves have assimilated. But neurotypicals are rarely forced to confront or even question that failing within themselves. Their bias against the unfamiliar or stigmatized goes unrecognized and unchallenged, and is thus that bias left to rule their interactions. We all have to grapple with such things, of course, but most spectrumites eventually find it impossible to survive without confronting such biases within themselves. Most NTs don't bother - because they don't have to.

For me, any neurotypical who purports to "speak for autistics" had better be prepared to demonstrate that they have, in fact, learned how to listen.

[malantha.livejournal.com]

I love it when people post those follow-up "I'm leaving!!!" posts and disable commenting. Really. It's fun.