conuly

Hah!
I'm from Oklahoma.

From:

Nice, I am too!

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conuly

OMG! It must be the gay!!!! Is it catching? HELLLLLLP!!!!

*runs around franticly*

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Resistance is futile.

You're already infected with it. Just from having us on your friends list.

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Lmao, I'm not gay, but I'm from Oklahoma, and it's sad how paranoid people are :/

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Gays can be in the military, my aunt is a lesbian and she was. They just can't be "openly" gay while serving, which she didn't find to be a problem.

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scottrossi.livejournal.com

oh man, the article forgot to mention one of our biggest pillars as a group, we want to sleep with little kids. because of course, nothing is more important to us ... (rolls eyes)

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queengodzilla.livejournal.com

And earlier, you had to HIDE being gay while you were in the military. I don't think it was a problem for most people in, say, the 1940s and even now.

-------

I know where that icon of yours is from. I have the children's book and all the illustrations in it. God, that Russian dude sure knew how to illustrate @_@

From:

lakidaa.livejournal.com

For some reason, all I can see is a really old horror movie.

B&W greyscale, with clay animated butch lesbians moving about. And suddenly, the main herione reveals herself to be ONE OF THEM! and the hero is forced to flee. FLEE!

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conuly

So, like I said, gays can't be in the military. If people find out you're gay, you can be kicked out. That doesn't really sound like you can actually be gay in the military.

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But even if they aren't "out" they are still gay. It's possible to stay in the military while being gay- don't discuss it, don't wear gay pride buttons etc., and don't engage in open homosexual relations. It might not be fair, but if someone is openly gay other soliders will likely ostracize that person or even commit hate crimes against them. If the military allowed openly gay soldiers it is likely they would be in danger.

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conuly

That is BULLSHIT.

That's the same exact reasoning they used for keeping black people in segregated units, and for not allowing women in the military.

It is fucking BULLSHIT.

If the military allowed openly gay soldiers it is likely they would be in danger.

They're in the military. They're already in danger. They're also adults, and should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding their safety.

I got bullied at school for being different. Does this mean I should've been forced to pretend I was "normal"? That's dangerously close to saying it was my fault I was being bullied.

It's not my fault if other people have bad behaviour, and I don't see the need for people's bad behaviour to be enabled like this.

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For women in blacks they integrated them gradually- it required time and patience.
You obviously have no background in the military as I do and I have not only my gay aunt but a gay great uncle who was in the military. Most of my family is in the military. Military people are not forgiving of differences, when you are in the military you do your job and this often means disregarding facets of your personality. You don't get to have long hair, wear large religious symbols, etc. etc. You are thinking in the abstract when you are saying danger is not a good excuse for not allowing them because you have no idea what kind of violence you open yourself up to when you are gay and in the military. Blacks and women had to be integrated gradually and women in the military still are in considerable danger of sexual assault. For this reason most military women look as asexual as possible. There is no "being yourself" in the military. Bad behavior in the military towards those who are a different is not enabled by not allowing open homosexuals, it's prevented because it is so difficult to enforce good behavior. From officers I've talked to it's likely the "don't ask, don't tell" rule will be changed in a couple of years, but they need to do it gradually and with caution. Most officers are staunchly conservative and it will take a long time for them to be able to treat gays with respect.

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Lesbian epidemic in the girls' bathrooms, riiiight. So always remember to put paper down on the toilet seat, and wash your hands with soap and hot water.

Anyone else here think it is downright CREEPY for this adult male to be obsessing over the idea of teenage girls *doing* each other in the bathrooms?

From:

Oh hell yes. I'm convinced that rabid homophobes are bigger pervs than the majority of the gay population. "It's them! Not me! Not me, I swear!!!11"

From:

Yep, that sounds like bigot logic to me. :)

*cheerfully gets Queer Germs all over your comments*

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There was that one study that I heard about that showed that homophobic males were much more aroused by gay porn than non-homophobic straight males.

From:

"Most officers are staunchly conservative and it will take a long time for them to be able to treat gays with respect."

That's the truth. My father is a Navy commander (retired now), so I grew up seeing and hearing the sort of straight-line, zero-tolerance, my-way-is-the-only-way thinking you're describing. I don't think it's going to even start to die out until the WWII/Korea/Cold War veterans are all gone.

"Bad behavior in the military towards those who are a different is not enabled by not allowing open homosexuals, it's prevented because it is so difficult to enforce good behavior."

Also true. Giving unenforceable orders undermines discipline - sure, a CO could enforce severe consequences for harassment, but what about all those COs who'd "look the other way" - how is their compliance with orders going to be enforced? Court-martial? First you've got to prove they knew and did nothing, and that's a hard thing to prove. The first lesson anyone learns in the military is "cover your ass"; by the time someone's a CO he's generally very good at it.

"Don't ask, don't tell" is a fine policy for things which ARE "facets of one's personality", such as religious beliefs and political convictions. But homosexuality is a "facet of personality" to exactly the same extent heterosexuality is. Now, if they want to make it that all personnel - gay, straight, or whatever - are not to talk about or openly engage in romantic/sexual affairs of any sort, that would be fair. As a side-effect, it might cut down on the amount of harassment women in the military are subject to. It isn't fair to enforce a rule on one group and not on others.

When gay marriage becomes legal, the whole problem is going to get a lot stickier. How do you tell people they're not allowed to even mention the fact that they have a husband or a wife? Can you picture the uproar if straight people were forbidden to tell anyone that they're married?

The military doesn't change quickly or easily, but it does change. A historical example is flogging, the abolishment of which caused a huge storm of protest from officers who claimed that it would not be possible to maintain discipline without it. Somehow they managed, though - when they had to, and not a moment sooner.

From:

conuly

You are thinking in the abstract when you are saying danger is not a good excuse for not allowing them because you have no idea what kind of violence you open yourself up to when you are gay and in the military.

No, I'm saying that people need to be allowed to make up their own minds as to whether or not they risk violence. That's called being an adult, in a system that is formed of adults.

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Openly gay people are allowed in the military in Canada and in many other countries. No one seems to have a problem with it outside the United States.

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Some of the most rabid homophobes are closeted gay people.

From:

priyatelka.livejournal.com

I thought that I remembered that the ancient Romans encouraged homosexuality in the military, believing that the men would develop stronger bonds and therefore be more likely to fight for one another.

In my limited search (don't have a lot of time at the moment), I wasn't able to find anything on that specifically, but I did find this:

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_019800_gaysinthemil.htm

It's an interesting read.

From:

shavedapebaby.livejournal.com

As if there weren't enough reasons to dethrone Bush, has anyone noticed that this administration (and the Senate, of course) tends to appoint people to policy-making positions who don't believe in their jobs? The Secretary of Education endorses privatization of schools. The Secretary of the Interior is a longtime advocate for environmental deregulation. The Attorney General upholds only those parts of the Bill of Rights that God personally tells him are okay. The co-chair of this advisory board on HIV/AIDS is a ranting homophobe who refuses to endorse condom use.

Brain hurts.

From:

illuen.livejournal.com

I guess I am one of the queerest people in the world, so I might as well infects all of you

*orgy*

you are all gay now.

From:

Hah!
I'm from Oklahoma.

From:

Nice, I am too!

From:

conuly

OMG! It must be the gay!!!! Is it catching? HELLLLLLP!!!!

*runs around franticly*

From:

Resistance is futile.

You're already infected with it. Just from having us on your friends list.

From:

Lmao, I'm not gay, but I'm from Oklahoma, and it's sad how paranoid people are :/

From:

Gays can be in the military, my aunt is a lesbian and she was. They just can't be "openly" gay while serving, which she didn't find to be a problem.

From:

scottrossi.livejournal.com

oh man, the article forgot to mention one of our biggest pillars as a group, we want to sleep with little kids. because of course, nothing is more important to us ... (rolls eyes)

From:

queengodzilla.livejournal.com

And earlier, you had to HIDE being gay while you were in the military. I don't think it was a problem for most people in, say, the 1940s and even now.

-------

I know where that icon of yours is from. I have the children's book and all the illustrations in it. God, that Russian dude sure knew how to illustrate @_@

From:

lakidaa.livejournal.com

For some reason, all I can see is a really old horror movie.

B&W greyscale, with clay animated butch lesbians moving about. And suddenly, the main herione reveals herself to be ONE OF THEM! and the hero is forced to flee. FLEE!

From:

conuly

So, like I said, gays can't be in the military. If people find out you're gay, you can be kicked out. That doesn't really sound like you can actually be gay in the military.

From:

But even if they aren't "out" they are still gay. It's possible to stay in the military while being gay- don't discuss it, don't wear gay pride buttons etc., and don't engage in open homosexual relations. It might not be fair, but if someone is openly gay other soliders will likely ostracize that person or even commit hate crimes against them. If the military allowed openly gay soldiers it is likely they would be in danger.

From:

conuly

That is BULLSHIT.

That's the same exact reasoning they used for keeping black people in segregated units, and for not allowing women in the military.

It is fucking BULLSHIT.

If the military allowed openly gay soldiers it is likely they would be in danger.

They're in the military. They're already in danger. They're also adults, and should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding their safety.

I got bullied at school for being different. Does this mean I should've been forced to pretend I was "normal"? That's dangerously close to saying it was my fault I was being bullied.

It's not my fault if other people have bad behaviour, and I don't see the need for people's bad behaviour to be enabled like this.

From:

For women in blacks they integrated them gradually- it required time and patience.
You obviously have no background in the military as I do and I have not only my gay aunt but a gay great uncle who was in the military. Most of my family is in the military. Military people are not forgiving of differences, when you are in the military you do your job and this often means disregarding facets of your personality. You don't get to have long hair, wear large religious symbols, etc. etc. You are thinking in the abstract when you are saying danger is not a good excuse for not allowing them because you have no idea what kind of violence you open yourself up to when you are gay and in the military. Blacks and women had to be integrated gradually and women in the military still are in considerable danger of sexual assault. For this reason most military women look as asexual as possible. There is no "being yourself" in the military. Bad behavior in the military towards those who are a different is not enabled by not allowing open homosexuals, it's prevented because it is so difficult to enforce good behavior. From officers I've talked to it's likely the "don't ask, don't tell" rule will be changed in a couple of years, but they need to do it gradually and with caution. Most officers are staunchly conservative and it will take a long time for them to be able to treat gays with respect.

From:

Lesbian epidemic in the girls' bathrooms, riiiight. So always remember to put paper down on the toilet seat, and wash your hands with soap and hot water.

Anyone else here think it is downright CREEPY for this adult male to be obsessing over the idea of teenage girls *doing* each other in the bathrooms?

From:

Oh hell yes. I'm convinced that rabid homophobes are bigger pervs than the majority of the gay population. "It's them! Not me! Not me, I swear!!!11"

From:

Yep, that sounds like bigot logic to me. :)

*cheerfully gets Queer Germs all over your comments*

From:

There was that one study that I heard about that showed that homophobic males were much more aroused by gay porn than non-homophobic straight males.

From:

"Most officers are staunchly conservative and it will take a long time for them to be able to treat gays with respect."

That's the truth. My father is a Navy commander (retired now), so I grew up seeing and hearing the sort of straight-line, zero-tolerance, my-way-is-the-only-way thinking you're describing. I don't think it's going to even start to die out until the WWII/Korea/Cold War veterans are all gone.

"Bad behavior in the military towards those who are a different is not enabled by not allowing open homosexuals, it's prevented because it is so difficult to enforce good behavior."

Also true. Giving unenforceable orders undermines discipline - sure, a CO could enforce severe consequences for harassment, but what about all those COs who'd "look the other way" - how is their compliance with orders going to be enforced? Court-martial? First you've got to prove they knew and did nothing, and that's a hard thing to prove. The first lesson anyone learns in the military is "cover your ass"; by the time someone's a CO he's generally very good at it.

"Don't ask, don't tell" is a fine policy for things which ARE "facets of one's personality", such as religious beliefs and political convictions. But homosexuality is a "facet of personality" to exactly the same extent heterosexuality is. Now, if they want to make it that all personnel - gay, straight, or whatever - are not to talk about or openly engage in romantic/sexual affairs of any sort, that would be fair. As a side-effect, it might cut down on the amount of harassment women in the military are subject to. It isn't fair to enforce a rule on one group and not on others.

When gay marriage becomes legal, the whole problem is going to get a lot stickier. How do you tell people they're not allowed to even mention the fact that they have a husband or a wife? Can you picture the uproar if straight people were forbidden to tell anyone that they're married?

The military doesn't change quickly or easily, but it does change. A historical example is flogging, the abolishment of which caused a huge storm of protest from officers who claimed that it would not be possible to maintain discipline without it. Somehow they managed, though - when they had to, and not a moment sooner.

From:

conuly

You are thinking in the abstract when you are saying danger is not a good excuse for not allowing them because you have no idea what kind of violence you open yourself up to when you are gay and in the military.

No, I'm saying that people need to be allowed to make up their own minds as to whether or not they risk violence. That's called being an adult, in a system that is formed of adults.

From:

Openly gay people are allowed in the military in Canada and in many other countries. No one seems to have a problem with it outside the United States.

From: