Sold back (most of) my books today...

[conuly]

And barely made enough to cover the ONE book I bought. It's a scam! You go to the store, sell your books, they give you money, you enter the store, pick out your book(s), and the money goes back in the cashbox! They don't even let you use B&N discount cards, which sucks when the book in question is only available at BC. So you get poor, and they're making money hand over fist.

Hm. Hand over fist. Weird expression. I wonder what it means. (Notice there is a period at the end of the sentence, as I am not asking a question, merely stating an emotion.) Of course, I know what it means, I just used it after all, what I mean is "I wonder why it means what it means, and I'm far too lazy to look it up right now".

Still, it makes more sense than "backwards" expressions, or expressions that have become such cliches that any meaning was lost. For example, consider "he was head over heels in love". That doesn't make ANY sense! You're always head over heels, except when you slouch, and then you're head over toes. The original, and logically correct form is "he was heels over head in love". This makes sense - somebody was so much in love that they were completely mixed up. Or "you want to have your cake and eat it too". Well, yeah. In order to eat my cake I first must have it. The earlier form runs something like "you want to eat your cake and then still have it", which makes sense. You can't keep something you've eaten. And then there are expressions which aren't backwards, merely eroded. "The proof is in the pudding." Proof of what, exactly? Where does pudding come into it, except in strange episodes of Monk? Nowhere, unless you say that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. This makes sense, because it says exactly what it means - you can tell how good something is by trying it out, you don't need other people to tell you how good it is.

*sighs* Language evolution is, generally, a good thing, but sometimes it just sucks.

Comments

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Hand over fist, like many such colorful expressions, probably comes from sailing terminology.

[conuly]

Really? Meaning what? *is curious*

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I can't find any clear definitions from a quick google, but did find one that sounded half likely - that it refers to hauling in fishing nets. The imagery works, the money part works...

I thought proof used to mean test, hence "the exception proves the rule" (which also would make "the proof is in the pudding" work.)

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

No, the original saying was "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." For some reason people have left off the "in the eating" part.

[mosskat55.livejournal.com]

We still say "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" in the UK - or sometimes, "The proof of the pudding..." as the rest is implicit.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Yay! I was worried I was imagining things when I was sitting there going "but people *do* say the eating part don't they?"

[rachelkachel]

Actually, "the exception proves the rule" is also wrong, according to something I've read - a more accurate translation of the Latin phrase would be "the exception tests the rule" which really makes more sense.

[rachelkachel]

And re-reading your comment, I see where you said proof used to mean test. Oops.

But it doesn't anymore, so people are still misusing the saying.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

That depends whether the meaning of a saying is in the words, or the saying as a whole. If I say "it's raining cats and dogs" then clearly the meaning of the individual words is wrong. But the saying as a whole means "it's raining very hard" and is understood as such.

Or to use a less phrasey example, let's have fun with French.

aimer - to like
adorer - to love

J'aime, I like. Tu aimes, you like.
J'adore, I love.

Je t'aime, I love you.

The individual componants dictate that it should be I like you (or actually, I you like since we're being literal) but it means I love you.

My point being that people aren't misusing "the exception proves the rule" they are just using the saying as a whole, rather than its distinct parts.

[rachelkachel]

Ok. :) But my experience is that when someone uses the phrase, what they actually mean is prove, not test. So say it's a rule that all redheads have short tempers, then if you know a redhead who doesn't - well, that just proves it! Which is nonsense.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see, I've never in my life seen it used like that. I tend to think of it in terms of language rules (with English as my first language, who could blame me.)

Apparently the rules in Finnish are easy - Finnish always follows grammatical rules, except for when it doesn't.

Wonderful *rolls eyes*

[takaal.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite examples of "lost-yet-used" expressions is in Orson Scott Card's "Memory of Earth" series.
A million years years in the future, the phrase "dancing bear" is a compliment. It means unparalled grace and agility; when questioned, one character says that he always imagined a dancing bear was some sort of fast-moving bird... his brother, who has been engaging in some linguistic research, tells him The Truth.

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

one address to solve your problem:

http://www.campusi.com

[priyatelka.livejournal.com]

Head over heels is the one that always bothers me. Aren't we always head over heels?

I read a Lovecraft story once where it said "heels over head" and that makes so much more sense.

I always wonder why it changed and how...

[rachelkachel]

"The proof is in the pudding" drives my dad nuts. He always says it makes him think of a mathematical proof buried in chocolate pudding.

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Hand over fist, like many such colorful expressions, probably comes from sailing terminology.

[conuly]

Really? Meaning what? *is curious*

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I can't find any clear definitions from a quick google, but did find one that sounded half likely - that it refers to hauling in fishing nets. The imagery works, the money part works...

I thought proof used to mean test, hence "the exception proves the rule" (which also would make "the proof is in the pudding" work.)

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

No, the original saying was "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." For some reason people have left off the "in the eating" part.

[mosskat55.livejournal.com]

We still say "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" in the UK - or sometimes, "The proof of the pudding..." as the rest is implicit.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Yay! I was worried I was imagining things when I was sitting there going "but people *do* say the eating part don't they?"

[rachelkachel]

Actually, "the exception proves the rule" is also wrong, according to something I've read - a more accurate translation of the Latin phrase would be "the exception tests the rule" which really makes more sense.

[rachelkachel]

And re-reading your comment, I see where you said proof used to mean test. Oops.

But it doesn't anymore, so people are still misusing the saying.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

That depends whether the meaning of a saying is in the words, or the saying as a whole. If I say "it's raining cats and dogs" then clearly the meaning of the individual words is wrong. But the saying as a whole means "it's raining very hard" and is understood as such.

Or to use a less phrasey example, let's have fun with French.

aimer - to like
adorer - to love

J'aime, I like. Tu aimes, you like.
J'adore, I love.

Je t'aime, I love you.

The individual componants dictate that it should be I like you (or actually, I you like since we're being literal) but it means I love you.

My point being that people aren't misusing "the exception proves the rule" they are just using the saying as a whole, rather than its distinct parts.

[rachelkachel]

Ok. :) But my experience is that when someone uses the phrase, what they actually mean is prove, not test. So say it's a rule that all redheads have short tempers, then if you know a redhead who doesn't - well, that just proves it! Which is nonsense.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see, I've never in my life seen it used like that. I tend to think of it in terms of language rules (with English as my first language, who could blame me.)

Apparently the rules in Finnish are easy - Finnish always follows grammatical rules, except for when it doesn't.

Wonderful *rolls eyes*

[takaal.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite examples of "lost-yet-used" expressions is in Orson Scott Card's "Memory of Earth" series.
A million years years in the future, the phrase "dancing bear" is a compliment. It means unparalled grace and agility; when questioned, one character says that he always imagined a dancing bear was some sort of fast-moving bird... his brother, who has been engaging in some linguistic research, tells him The Truth.

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

one address to solve your problem:

http://www.campusi.com

[priyatelka.livejournal.com]

Head over heels is the one that always bothers me. Aren't we always head over heels?

I read a Lovecraft story once where it said "heels over head" and that makes so much more sense.

I always wonder why it changed and how...

[rachelkachel]

"The proof is in the pudding" drives my dad nuts. He always says it makes him think of a mathematical proof buried in chocolate pudding.