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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2007-01-16 12:36 am (UTC)And the second, well, someone needs to tell the adults to pick their words better. I am as anti ABA as them, (although if for some reason it was the ONLY way that worked with SOMEONE to live a normal life I wouldn't want to deny it, because I am a big fan of doctors and patients and parents being the deciders, not the outside) but a LOT make it sound like, or do outright say, that the kids should be left to flounder, and that really frosts my ovaries.
I would love to see posts/info of adults/teens who went through ABA. Have some people I would like to talk to about it. Haven't run into it yet. The author of the second IS making assuptions. That 'don't give up on my girls' is some code word for "i hate my kids and want them to change'. That's bullshit. And even admitted that the use of ABA in that family is not known. But hey, a mom is a convenient target for a rant, eh?
The mom is talking about the toilet and the writer is assuming it's about behavior. To go an project on the mother for political purposes, to use the mother like that, is appalling.
God, the kids especially are being used by both sides, when they're just kids. I hate when that happens. War. Disabilities. Race. Gender issues. I just want the kids to be KIDS.
That reminds me I have an ABA post to make in a few, traa lala.
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Date: 2007-02-23 03:49 am (UTC)Apparently you did not read what was said, because that is not what I said.
Phrases like "recover from their autism" and "don't tell me to give up on my girls" indicate that she sees autism as a fixable condition rather than a state of being, and that allowing them to be anything other than completely stereotypical neurotypicals is "giving up." That's the crux of the problem.
I bolded the most important point. She sees it as fixable, ergo, allowing it not to be "fixed" by her standards is not acceptable to her. I fail to see how this is not obvious to you.
"the writer is assuming it's about behavior."
No, what I said was:
I think that the fundamental disconnect between parents of young autistics and the neurodiversity community is about ABA, because really, it's the thing that is most often touted as a "service" for autistics by the medical establishment, and thus, also the most often demanded by parents. There have been court cases where parents have sued health insurance companies for not covering ABA, and neurodiversity advocates have fought against the parents in court, because ABA has been shown repeatedly to damage autistics psychologically. But the parents don't hear "We are against ABA," because they've been told that ABA is the only solution for them. They hear "We are against your children learning how to cope with the world." And that is not the case. What we are against is the method that is being put forth as "the only solution."
How do you not see that the point is that parents of autistic children are told that ABA is the "only" solution, and so when adult autistics say "that damages autistics, and we have proof that it does," parents get crazy because they think that adult autistics are saying "don't give your kids any help in coping with the world"?
If you're going to critique what I write, please critique what I write, not what you think I wrote. I spent quite a bit of time working on that article to make sure I wasn't demonizing Ms. Stagliano, and I do not appreciate being accused of doing exactly that.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-23 04:11 am (UTC)So really, I'm just too dumb to comprehend, even all this time later. But thanks for trying!
Right now I have decided I don't give a (insert various profanities here) what the autistic community wants to do with my kid, and life has been AMAZING since that happened. It's great when you let go, seriously.
I do want to see the proof in adults, not that I do ABA, but I've only seen parents rally against it, nothing about adults who been through it. Since I don't do ABA though it doesn't really matter. I have to stop worrying about all these theories and do what works. Fixing. Whatever. I'm not going to argue semantics, I'm going to improve his life, just like I do for the other two. He isn't subhuman and deserves as much of a shot at life as my other kids and I won't let politics keep him down. Not that it ever COULD, of course. It's just the internet.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-23 04:28 am (UTC)And I can assure you, Griffen wants the same things you do for your kid.
You've been getting more and more frustrated-sounding in the past few months. Seriously. Take a breath, okay? It's worrying me.
Don't reply until you've taken that breath and have stepped back and thought, okay? Because you and Griffen might not be friends, but you're both my friends, and I don't want drama on my journal. I do not currently have the capacity to deal with it.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-16 12:36 am (UTC)And the second, well, someone needs to tell the adults to pick their words better. I am as anti ABA as them, (although if for some reason it was the ONLY way that worked with SOMEONE to live a normal life I wouldn't want to deny it, because I am a big fan of doctors and patients and parents being the deciders, not the outside) but a LOT make it sound like, or do outright say, that the kids should be left to flounder, and that really frosts my ovaries.
I would love to see posts/info of adults/teens who went through ABA. Have some people I would like to talk to about it. Haven't run into it yet. The author of the second IS making assuptions. That 'don't give up on my girls' is some code word for "i hate my kids and want them to change'. That's bullshit. And even admitted that the use of ABA in that family is not known. But hey, a mom is a convenient target for a rant, eh?
The mom is talking about the toilet and the writer is assuming it's about behavior. To go an project on the mother for political purposes, to use the mother like that, is appalling.
God, the kids especially are being used by both sides, when they're just kids. I hate when that happens. War. Disabilities. Race. Gender issues. I just want the kids to be KIDS.
That reminds me I have an ABA post to make in a few, traa lala.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-23 03:49 am (UTC)Apparently you did not read what was said, because that is not what I said.
Phrases like "recover from their autism" and "don't tell me to give up on my girls" indicate that she sees autism as a fixable condition rather than a state of being, and that allowing them to be anything other than completely stereotypical neurotypicals is "giving up." That's the crux of the problem.
I bolded the most important point. She sees it as fixable, ergo, allowing it not to be "fixed" by her standards is not acceptable to her. I fail to see how this is not obvious to you.
"the writer is assuming it's about behavior."
No, what I said was:
I think that the fundamental disconnect between parents of young autistics and the neurodiversity community is about ABA, because really, it's the thing that is most often touted as a "service" for autistics by the medical establishment, and thus, also the most often demanded by parents. There have been court cases where parents have sued health insurance companies for not covering ABA, and neurodiversity advocates have fought against the parents in court, because ABA has been shown repeatedly to damage autistics psychologically. But the parents don't hear "We are against ABA," because they've been told that ABA is the only solution for them. They hear "We are against your children learning how to cope with the world." And that is not the case. What we are against is the method that is being put forth as "the only solution."
How do you not see that the point is that parents of autistic children are told that ABA is the "only" solution, and so when adult autistics say "that damages autistics, and we have proof that it does," parents get crazy because they think that adult autistics are saying "don't give your kids any help in coping with the world"?
If you're going to critique what I write, please critique what I write, not what you think I wrote. I spent quite a bit of time working on that article to make sure I wasn't demonizing Ms. Stagliano, and I do not appreciate being accused of doing exactly that.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-23 04:11 am (UTC)So really, I'm just too dumb to comprehend, even all this time later. But thanks for trying!
Right now I have decided I don't give a (insert various profanities here) what the autistic community wants to do with my kid, and life has been AMAZING since that happened. It's great when you let go, seriously.
I do want to see the proof in adults, not that I do ABA, but I've only seen parents rally against it, nothing about adults who been through it. Since I don't do ABA though it doesn't really matter. I have to stop worrying about all these theories and do what works. Fixing. Whatever. I'm not going to argue semantics, I'm going to improve his life, just like I do for the other two. He isn't subhuman and deserves as much of a shot at life as my other kids and I won't let politics keep him down. Not that it ever COULD, of course. It's just the internet.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-23 04:28 am (UTC)And I can assure you, Griffen wants the same things you do for your kid.
You've been getting more and more frustrated-sounding in the past few months. Seriously. Take a breath, okay? It's worrying me.
Don't reply until you've taken that breath and have stepped back and thought, okay? Because you and Griffen might not be friends, but you're both my friends, and I don't want drama on my journal. I do not currently have the capacity to deal with it.