Connie Obvious:

[conuly]

(After reading five whole OSC books in a few short weeks)

Gee. Orson Scott Card sure does seem hung up on the gay, doesn't he?

This has been another edition of Very Obvious Programming, brought to you by the Homecoming Saga. Thank you.

Comments

[concordantnexus.livejournal.com]

My god! you managed to read through *5* OSC's in a few weeks? The best I've ever done is 2 during a month... I'm impressed! :)

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I haven't noticed anything pro- or anti-gay in the ender's series, the bean series, or the book Homebody.

[conuly]

Ah, but have you read the Homecoming Saga? Five books, ending with "Earthborn"?

He's neither pro nor anti in them (indeed, I find his most sympathetic character to be the gay guy, which may be telling something about Mr. Card), but my god does the subject keep popping up!

[conuly]

Impressed because I was reading fast, or because you find him hard to slog through?

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I thought it was a mildly interesting plot device in Homecoming, especially since the girl in question was the only one who wasn't annoying.

Doing it again in a different series? KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY, ORSON.

And they claim we have an AGENDA.

[conuly]

Somebody on my friends list postulated that the guy may be so deep in the closet that he's in serious denial.

I have to say, I'm giving that some not-very-serious thought.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

That, or he's just an asshat. :D

[conuly]

Mmm. I have a remarkable ability to ignore most disturbing aspects of books while reading them. With that turned on, and the knowledge that I bought his books used, he's not a half-bad author.

[maelorin]

OSC is a Mormon.

[shenya.livejournal.com]

Or it might be related to his deeply religious upbringing (Morman).

He seemed a pretty nice person the time I met him so I don't think that it's that he's an ashatt.

[aberrantangels]

Somebody on my friends list postulated that the guy may be so deep in the closet that he's in serious denial.

I don't remember airing that theory, but I'm one've the people who subscribe to it.

[aberrantangels]

He seemed a pretty nice person the time I met him so I don't think that it's that he's an ashatt.

Winston Smith met him and went "[f]rom excited to meet you to can’t freaking stand you in about 15 min[u]tes", then "left with very warm feelings about the guy.... Absolutely Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (or vice-versa)." A lot've people on the right are like that, in my experience; very nice as long as you don't trip any of their hot buttons, at which point they turn (to quote HST on Nixon) "into something unspeakable, full of claws and bleeding string warts".

[conuly]

I know.

[l33tminion]

You've probably already seen this since you know yonmei, but it's very relevant so I'll drop the link anyway. (Actually, I think I met yonmei through that post, it was metaquoted or something...)

[concordantnexus.livejournal.com]

Hard to slog through. Ender's Game is okay, the others are painful to digest.

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

He came across decidedly pro-gay in Songmaster. The main character is bi, IIRC, and his same-sex relationships are portrayed quite tenderly.

I remember Homecoming leaving a bad taste in my mouth, but I don't remember exactly why since I read it quite some time ago. I seem to remember there being a section that came across like an ad for those gods-awful ex-gay ministries (something about a gay man "returning to the web of life" by trying to become homosexual), but I could easily have it confused with some other series.

He's a strange, strange, self-contradictory man, that OSC.

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

Err, trying to become HETEROsexual, that is. >.>

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

I don't think he's gay, but I would be far from surprised if he turned out to be bi.

[conuly]

There's this book he wrote with somebody else. About a monkey. A very smart monkey. A very smart *enslaved* monkey. And there's a bi/gay segue about somebody else midway through the story...

Hm... There's also a lot of abuse-commentary in a lot of his stories, isn't there? I can think of several glaring examples from the Homecoming books I just read, and more from Ender's universe... *ponders*

OSC has got some serious issues, doesn't he?

[conuly]

Ah. I find they're much easier if you ignore anything and everything that isn't flat-out story. Anything half-baked, just skim the next three pages.

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

That should make reading Rebekah (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076534128X/qid=1145047699/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-9299361-2576046?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) very interesting then.

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

I would say he certainly does have issues.

I read somewhere that he was sexually abused, and that's why he's got such a bee in his bonnet about gays. I don't know if he was, but either way I don't buy that interpretation. There are sympathetic gay characters in his early books, and a lot of the themes in his Enders series resonate very strongly against his stated views on homosexuality. It seems to be mostly in his later years that he goes all homophobic school boy.

I'm not sure what's going on with him, but he's obviously very conflicted about something relating to sexuality and sexual orientation.

[aberrantangels]

It seems to be mostly in his later years that he goes all homophobic school boy.

I wonder if the birth of Charlie Ben (his son with cerebral palsy, the original of Homecoming's Issib and the novel-length Lost Boys' Jeremy Zapata Fletcher) had anything to do with his reversion to a hardline Mormon.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

Apparently if you mention anything remotely positive about disability of any kind in front of him, he turns into an asshat (and a spectacular one, as in loud screaming and yelling and ranting and raving about what a horrible person you are) in no time at all.

[concordantnexus.livejournal.com]

My god! you managed to read through *5* OSC's in a few weeks? The best I've ever done is 2 during a month... I'm impressed! :)

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I haven't noticed anything pro- or anti-gay in the ender's series, the bean series, or the book Homebody.

[conuly]

Ah, but have you read the Homecoming Saga? Five books, ending with "Earthborn"?

He's neither pro nor anti in them (indeed, I find his most sympathetic character to be the gay guy, which may be telling something about Mr. Card), but my god does the subject keep popping up!

[conuly]

Impressed because I was reading fast, or because you find him hard to slog through?

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I thought it was a mildly interesting plot device in Homecoming, especially since the girl in question was the only one who wasn't annoying.

Doing it again in a different series? KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY, ORSON.

And they claim we have an AGENDA.

[conuly]

Somebody on my friends list postulated that the guy may be so deep in the closet that he's in serious denial.

I have to say, I'm giving that some not-very-serious thought.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

That, or he's just an asshat. :D

[conuly]

Mmm. I have a remarkable ability to ignore most disturbing aspects of books while reading them. With that turned on, and the knowledge that I bought his books used, he's not a half-bad author.

[maelorin]

OSC is a Mormon.

[shenya.livejournal.com]

Or it might be related to his deeply religious upbringing (Morman).

He seemed a pretty nice person the time I met him so I don't think that it's that he's an ashatt.

[aberrantangels]

Somebody on my friends list postulated that the guy may be so deep in the closet that he's in serious denial.

I don't remember airing that theory, but I'm one've the people who subscribe to it.

[aberrantangels]

He seemed a pretty nice person the time I met him so I don't think that it's that he's an ashatt.

Winston Smith met him and went "[f]rom excited to meet you to can’t freaking stand you in about 15 min[u]tes", then "left with very warm feelings about the guy.... Absolutely Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (or vice-versa)." A lot've people on the right are like that, in my experience; very nice as long as you don't trip any of their hot buttons, at which point they turn (to quote HST on Nixon) "into something unspeakable, full of claws and bleeding string warts".

[conuly]

I know.

[l33tminion]

You've probably already seen this since you know yonmei, but it's very relevant so I'll drop the link anyway. (Actually, I think I met yonmei through that post, it was metaquoted or something...)

[concordantnexus.livejournal.com]

Hard to slog through. Ender's Game is okay, the others are painful to digest.

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

He came across decidedly pro-gay in Songmaster. The main character is bi, IIRC, and his same-sex relationships are portrayed quite tenderly.

I remember Homecoming leaving a bad taste in my mouth, but I don't remember exactly why since I read it quite some time ago. I seem to remember there being a section that came across like an ad for those gods-awful ex-gay ministries (something about a gay man "returning to the web of life" by trying to become homosexual), but I could easily have it confused with some other series.

He's a strange, strange, self-contradictory man, that OSC.

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

Err, trying to become HETEROsexual, that is. >.>

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

I don't think he's gay, but I would be far from surprised if he turned out to be bi.

[conuly]

There's this book he wrote with somebody else. About a monkey. A very smart monkey. A very smart *enslaved* monkey. And there's a bi/gay segue about somebody else midway through the story...

Hm... There's also a lot of abuse-commentary in a lot of his stories, isn't there? I can think of several glaring examples from the Homecoming books I just read, and more from Ender's universe... *ponders*

OSC has got some serious issues, doesn't he?

[conuly]

Ah. I find they're much easier if you ignore anything and everything that isn't flat-out story. Anything half-baked, just skim the next three pages.

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

That should make reading Rebekah (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076534128X/qid=1145047699/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-9299361-2576046?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) very interesting then.

[worldmage.livejournal.com]

I would say he certainly does have issues.

I read somewhere that he was sexually abused, and that's why he's got such a bee in his bonnet about gays. I don't know if he was, but either way I don't buy that interpretation. There are sympathetic gay characters in his early books, and a lot of the themes in his Enders series resonate very strongly against his stated views on homosexuality. It seems to be mostly in his later years that he goes all homophobic school boy.

I'm not sure what's going on with him, but he's obviously very conflicted about something relating to sexuality and sexual orientation.

[aberrantangels]

It seems to be mostly in his later years that he goes all homophobic school boy.

I wonder if the birth of Charlie Ben (his son with cerebral palsy, the original of Homecoming's Issib and the novel-length Lost Boys' Jeremy Zapata Fletcher) had anything to do with his reversion to a hardline Mormon.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

Apparently if you mention anything remotely positive about disability of any kind in front of him, he turns into an asshat (and a spectacular one, as in loud screaming and yelling and ranting and raving about what a horrible person you are) in no time at all.