You know what argument I really hate?

[conuly]

The one about how "Aren't you glad your parents chose life?", like that's going to make me feel bad and hate abortions. Mal posted lately a list of mostly pathetic arguments against tubal ligation, one of which was "Were you a whoops baby?" (same concept).

Y'know what? My grandparents met after the Second World War. They wouldn't've met at all if it weren't for the war. Does this mean I should be grateful that so many people suffered, because it enabled my eventual birth?

My nieces are, as I'm sure many of you know, half black. Their ancestors would never have met if it weren't for slavery. They would've all lived in their separate parts of Africa, and 'dul would never have existed, and even if he somehow had, he would not have found a way to meet Jenn. Surely we can all see how absurd it would be to have stickers saying "Aren't you glad your ancestors were enslaved?", right? (Please say I'm right!)

There are any number of ways people could not have been born. Nobody's telling people they need to be glad their parents fucked, and therefore they should stop being virgins as quickly as possible, are they?

Of course not. So why say that people shouldn't get sterilized because of the chance of an accidental pregnancy? I can at least understand using that argument for abortion, because of the whole "life begins at conception" idea (which I profoundly disagree with, at least in the way it's meant. I'm not a vegetarian. I have no qualms about stopping "a beating heart". It's sentience I'm concerned with).

More proof that most of humanity is a bit dumb. Alas and alack.

Comments

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Stopping accidental pregnancy... wouldn't that be pretty much the point of sterilisation?

[conuly]

Yup.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

*dies* So true.

Not to mention that
a) choosing life is, surprise, A Choice!
b) kids whose mothers chose abortion probably don't mind too much seeing as they, you know, were never born, and
c) some days? I'm really not particularly glad.

[conuly]

c) some days? I'm really not particularly glad.

I'm always tempted, upon seeing those awful stickers, to start wailing and sobbing about how I wish I was never born. And I'm sorry for you *hugs* that you sometimes honestly feel that way, because that's just not pleasant.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Pssst-- *ligation

[conuly]

Oooh, thanks. *runs and hides*

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

There are any number of ways people could not have been born. Nobody's telling people they need to be glad their parents fucked, and therefore they should stop being virgins as quickly as possible, are they?

Yeah.

There's all kinds of little things I know about in my family history that if they hadn't been just so I wouldn't be here. Trivial things. Then there's the fact that I'm in part the product of a relatively recent nasty genocidal conquest. Wonderful. (And I'm sure most people, if you go back far enough, are. Mine was just recent enough to be known.)

Doesn't make sense to me.

[neurotica0.livejournal.com]

I'm glad my mother "chose life," but the emphasis is on her choice. That is, I'm glad she had one. (She had her first child pre-Roe, so she didn't have much of a choice on that one.)

Being pro-choice doesn't mean favoring abortion as a choice over the choice of carrying a pregnancy to term. It just means favoring that the choice exists.

The bumper stickers "Choose Life" get me too, because if you're saying it's a choice and should be, then you're pro-choice. What those bumper stickers really mean is "Carrying Pregnancies to Term Life by Default."

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

Those bumper stickers make me want one that says, "Choose death."

[rho]

If you google for "choose life" the third result gives you that scene from the opening of Trainspotting, including the line "Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself." I don't really think I have to comment any further on that.

[ratkrycek.livejournal.com]

That was my first association upon reading "Choose life."

Hahaha. Yes. I am so fond of sayig to those pro-lifers, "See, the first thing my mother did was take that choice away from me. I didn't ask to be born, after all. She just kinda had me."

They look at me kind of funny, and so I go on in that vein about how I didn't ask to be here, got no choice in the matter - in that way, my life was indeed handed to me. And yet refusing that choice, denying it, would be an affront to society, a criminal act even. Not to mention go against the prime directive of any living creature, so far as I know, going back to the very first amoebas in that primodial soup, or at least not very long after; the parimecium certainly seemed a bit more agile and deliberate in its actions.

By this time, there is usually quite a pleasant bit of steam coming from their ears, and I try to stifle a grin, waiting for the moment their brains go "POP!"

In other words? I am a cruel individual who delights in torturing certain people. Forgive me.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I have long thought that I should never have been born. Don't get me wrong, I'm generally glad I exist. But I think it might have been better for both of my parents to have broken up before I was conceived. But they didn't, I'm here, and I make the best of it.

I also am, according to family stories passed down for a long time, the result, in part, of a rape by a Mongol a very long time ago. The story was passed down to explain certain features that still pop up now and then in our family line. I don't think that should have happened.

When I was a child, I always knew I was an accidental pregnancy. I also knew that my parents loved me and were glad to have me. But I always thought it must be great to be adopted, because no child is as deliberately picked and taken with a parent saying, Yes, I want this child, as one who is adopted.

But none of that really means anything at all in the scheme of things. I am here, and I do what I can with that. If I hadn't been here, then I wouldn't, but I certainly wouldn't mind, since I wouldn't be here.

I am a vegetarian, and I dislike unnecessary killing. But there is one thing I mind far more than unnecessary killing, and that is unnecessary torture. What bothers me most about the meat industry is not the eventual killing and carving, but the horrible conditions some animals live in while waiting for that. Treat them well before you kill them, and I wouldn't mind so much. I still wouldn't eat them, but I'd feel better about the whole thing. To me an unwanted child is likely to have a bad life. I'd rather end that before its sentient. I think every child deserves a loving family that can provide for the child's basic needs. If you can't give a child that, either by yourself or by giving the child to someone who can, then don't have a child. Abort it quick and early in case of an accident, because that's the kindest thing to do.

But then, I often find it sad that we will often treat our pets better than people, euthanizing them gently when there is nothing left but suffering, whereas we often force our human loved ones to linger in misery.

[conuly]

I certainly wouldn't mind, since I wouldn't be here.

Mostly agreed. I suppose it's possible to care about things you don't exist to care about, but...

As I was going up the stair
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would go away!

[snale.livejournal.com]

Brilliant logic. :)
It makes me happy when people make sense.

[conuly]

Happens that rarely it merits comment? Dang.

[peaseblossom03.livejournal.com]

"Aren't you glad your parents chose life?"
"Damn shame about yours though."

[conuly]

*gigglesnorts*

I could never.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

*LMAO* Wow Connie, you're so...amusing...and logical!

*laughs some more and nods heartily in agreement*

That song that goes something like "I'm not sick but I'm not well..." has a line akin to stating that only stupid people are breeding. Well, I've known a few very smart, diligent parents, but it does seem that the dumb ones tend to reproduce more prolifically, and so many of the smart ones abstain altogether. It's a shame, in a sense, that it's not the other way around.

[conuly]

It's more that the sillies are always more noticeable. I think.

[astarte59.livejournal.com]

I hate that argument too! The counterpoint to it is that my mother had *several* abortions before she got pregnant with me and decided, well, guess I'm going to keep this one. If she *hadn't had those abortions* I'd have never been born. :-)

OK, actually, I have a question about book_icons. Icons based on quotes from books are ok. But what about icons such as the one I use here, where the image is from a TV show or movie that *isn't* book-based, but it contains a quote from a book, and, in fact, the quote is integral to the icon as a whole.

[conuly]

Perfectly okay - but if it's not a well-known quote, it'd be better if you specify where you got it.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

"Were you a whoops baby?"

Damn skippy I was. So much of a "whoops" that she gave me to an adoption agency and I was raised by one asswipe and one professional martyr.

Next question? Or does she have one?

Stupid pseudologic.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Stopping accidental pregnancy... wouldn't that be pretty much the point of sterilisation?

[conuly]

Yup.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

*dies* So true.

Not to mention that
a) choosing life is, surprise, A Choice!
b) kids whose mothers chose abortion probably don't mind too much seeing as they, you know, were never born, and
c) some days? I'm really not particularly glad.

[conuly]

c) some days? I'm really not particularly glad.

I'm always tempted, upon seeing those awful stickers, to start wailing and sobbing about how I wish I was never born. And I'm sorry for you *hugs* that you sometimes honestly feel that way, because that's just not pleasant.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Pssst-- *ligation

[conuly]

Oooh, thanks. *runs and hides*

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

There are any number of ways people could not have been born. Nobody's telling people they need to be glad their parents fucked, and therefore they should stop being virgins as quickly as possible, are they?

Yeah.

There's all kinds of little things I know about in my family history that if they hadn't been just so I wouldn't be here. Trivial things. Then there's the fact that I'm in part the product of a relatively recent nasty genocidal conquest. Wonderful. (And I'm sure most people, if you go back far enough, are. Mine was just recent enough to be known.)

Doesn't make sense to me.

[neurotica0.livejournal.com]

I'm glad my mother "chose life," but the emphasis is on her choice. That is, I'm glad she had one. (She had her first child pre-Roe, so she didn't have much of a choice on that one.)

Being pro-choice doesn't mean favoring abortion as a choice over the choice of carrying a pregnancy to term. It just means favoring that the choice exists.

The bumper stickers "Choose Life" get me too, because if you're saying it's a choice and should be, then you're pro-choice. What those bumper stickers really mean is "Carrying Pregnancies to Term Life by Default."

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

Those bumper stickers make me want one that says, "Choose death."

[rho]

If you google for "choose life" the third result gives you that scene from the opening of Trainspotting, including the line "Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself." I don't really think I have to comment any further on that.

[ratkrycek.livejournal.com]

That was my first association upon reading "Choose life."

Hahaha. Yes. I am so fond of sayig to those pro-lifers, "See, the first thing my mother did was take that choice away from me. I didn't ask to be born, after all. She just kinda had me."

They look at me kind of funny, and so I go on in that vein about how I didn't ask to be here, got no choice in the matter - in that way, my life was indeed handed to me. And yet refusing that choice, denying it, would be an affront to society, a criminal act even. Not to mention go against the prime directive of any living creature, so far as I know, going back to the very first amoebas in that primodial soup, or at least not very long after; the parimecium certainly seemed a bit more agile and deliberate in its actions.

By this time, there is usually quite a pleasant bit of steam coming from their ears, and I try to stifle a grin, waiting for the moment their brains go "POP!"

In other words? I am a cruel individual who delights in torturing certain people. Forgive me.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I have long thought that I should never have been born. Don't get me wrong, I'm generally glad I exist. But I think it might have been better for both of my parents to have broken up before I was conceived. But they didn't, I'm here, and I make the best of it.

I also am, according to family stories passed down for a long time, the result, in part, of a rape by a Mongol a very long time ago. The story was passed down to explain certain features that still pop up now and then in our family line. I don't think that should have happened.

When I was a child, I always knew I was an accidental pregnancy. I also knew that my parents loved me and were glad to have me. But I always thought it must be great to be adopted, because no child is as deliberately picked and taken with a parent saying, Yes, I want this child, as one who is adopted.

But none of that really means anything at all in the scheme of things. I am here, and I do what I can with that. If I hadn't been here, then I wouldn't, but I certainly wouldn't mind, since I wouldn't be here.

I am a vegetarian, and I dislike unnecessary killing. But there is one thing I mind far more than unnecessary killing, and that is unnecessary torture. What bothers me most about the meat industry is not the eventual killing and carving, but the horrible conditions some animals live in while waiting for that. Treat them well before you kill them, and I wouldn't mind so much. I still wouldn't eat them, but I'd feel better about the whole thing. To me an unwanted child is likely to have a bad life. I'd rather end that before its sentient. I think every child deserves a loving family that can provide for the child's basic needs. If you can't give a child that, either by yourself or by giving the child to someone who can, then don't have a child. Abort it quick and early in case of an accident, because that's the kindest thing to do.

But then, I often find it sad that we will often treat our pets better than people, euthanizing them gently when there is nothing left but suffering, whereas we often force our human loved ones to linger in misery.

[conuly]

I certainly wouldn't mind, since I wouldn't be here.

Mostly agreed. I suppose it's possible to care about things you don't exist to care about, but...

As I was going up the stair
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would go away!

[snale.livejournal.com]

Brilliant logic. :)
It makes me happy when people make sense.

[conuly]

Happens that rarely it merits comment? Dang.

[peaseblossom03.livejournal.com]

"Aren't you glad your parents chose life?"
"Damn shame about yours though."

[conuly]

*gigglesnorts*

I could never.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

*LMAO* Wow Connie, you're so...amusing...and logical!

*laughs some more and nods heartily in agreement*

That song that goes something like "I'm not sick but I'm not well..." has a line akin to stating that only stupid people are breeding. Well, I've known a few very smart, diligent parents, but it does seem that the dumb ones tend to reproduce more prolifically, and so many of the smart ones abstain altogether. It's a shame, in a sense, that it's not the other way around.

[conuly]

It's more that the sillies are always more noticeable. I think.

[astarte59.livejournal.com]

I hate that argument too! The counterpoint to it is that my mother had *several* abortions before she got pregnant with me and decided, well, guess I'm going to keep this one. If she *hadn't had those abortions* I'd have never been born. :-)

OK, actually, I have a question about book_icons. Icons based on quotes from books are ok. But what about icons such as the one I use here, where the image is from a TV show or movie that *isn't* book-based, but it contains a quote from a book, and, in fact, the quote is integral to the icon as a whole.

[conuly]

Perfectly okay - but if it's not a well-known quote, it'd be better if you specify where you got it.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

"Were you a whoops baby?"

Damn skippy I was. So much of a "whoops" that she gave me to an adoption agency and I was raised by one asswipe and one professional martyr.

Next question? Or does she have one?

Stupid pseudologic.