Something somebody said got me thinking, on a bit of a tangent.

[conuly]

Some of you are my friends. Others, I just like to read.

Even if I consider you my friend, there's a very good chance I'll never tell you that, for a number of depressing reasons.

1. I have long since learned that people who say "I'm your friend" rarely are. They're saying it because they want to set you up for their own profit or amusement. Or they're saying it because they feel bad about not stopping other people from harming you. At best, they're saying it because they've noticed you don't trust them, don't like them, and don't want to be around them, probably for a good reason - and this has disturbed them greatly. They're not saying it because they're actually your friends. Your real friends don't need to tell you this, generally.

The phrase "I'm your friend" or "we're friends" always sets off my alarms, because it's about the most untrustworthy thing people have ever said to me. I really just wish I'd figured out that lie sooner. (Note, this doesn't apply to the person whose post prompted this, because that person (whom I do consider a friend) is very unlikely to fall into any of those three categories.)

2. Even if I didn't have that huge psychological block described above, what if I say I'm your friend, or just refer to myself as your friend (as in "my friend 'name' is 'blank'") and then you get upset because it's non-reciprocal? I keep thinking like I don't have very many friends, and people are only pretending to like me, it's a big setup for some huge joke. Oh, I know it's not true (and if you actually are in that category, you should feel horrible and go away NOW), but I can't shake the feeling.

3. It's even harder to shake the feeling that other people also aren't my friends, they're just tolerating me, but without the malicious intent of the people in group 2. What if I talk about you as though you're my friend, and then you feel bad because you don't really care about me in any personal sense?

*sighs*

And you know what's really bad is that writing this entry has pretty much destroyed my mood. I'm going to have to clean my glasses again now. Please don't reply to this saying things like "that's not true" or "I'm your friend", because then we're back at number 1 again, and nobody really wants that.

I'm locking this.

Comments

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

I frequently find myself saying things like "My online friend Conuly..." and then having to think "well, how exactly do I identify that particular kind of friendship that's fairly casual but also intimate...?"

"My intimate-stranger friend Conuly?"

Whatever. I call you my friend when talking about you and your journal to other people. It's easier. Plus, it means I have more friends!

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

I've had the exact same thought pattern. I've mostly just given up and continued using 'friend' because there isn't a better word to use in casual conversation. If I'm really bothered by in inadequacies of language I'll sometimes switch to "guy/girl I know online" but that's too wordy and is still only sort of accurate.

Come to think of it this happens with Conuly quite a bit because of all the cool links that I follow, read, and then want to tell other people about :)

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

for me, its not about the word and the exact meaning of the word, its about the connection that word implies. sure i dont know you one on one, but in this postmodern internet universe, our avatars or what have you, got to like, or at least find something interesting in each other, which IRL, would make us friends, or just buddies at the least.

[usnbfs.livejournal.com]

we're certainly not friends *g*

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

I don't want to offend or anything, but this plus a few other things you've said makes me want to ask...have you considered that you might have depression?

(Not saying that in a negative way. Saying it in the sense that I recognize a lot of what you're saying from my own life, and wouldn't want you to be needlessly hurting.)

Since it bothers you, I won't say you are my friend, but I will say that I care about you. :-)

[conuly]

Other people have suggested that, and it does run in my family. However, since at the moment there's literally nothing that I can do about that, I'm trying not to look into the subject.

I'm a little disturbed myself over how quickly I went from happy cheery connie to really not happy cheery connie. But then again, my public school years sucked, and this is what I'm thinking of right now.

[velasco.livejournal.com]

I have those feelings sometimes. The people who are my friends, don't need to tell me they're my friends, because they show it by their actions, and the same back to them. I honestly don't know that I've ever said or heard "I'm your friend"

And as for the paranoia thing...I sometimes feel that too, usually right before a manic-depressive depression episode :/ It isn't true (in my case, anyway, just a consequence of a mentally messed-up state.)

[xmorningxrosex.livejournal.com]

That's what I was going to say too. Friends should have a pretty good understanding of who their friends are, so saying things like "You're my friend" seems a little forced. It's one thing if you're saying, "Let's be friends" or "You're a good friend" or talking to a young'un, but otherwise it just makes me a bit nervous.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I find with LiveJournal, the borders of who is and isn't a friend get very fuzzy. Except in the jargon sense of listed on a friends list, but that doesn't mean much. I also find, the more I live, the less the term friend means to me anyway. I used to have a best friend and close friends and friends and acquaintances... and then I realized, it's all rather silly. I have people I relate to in various different ways. Trying to group them doesn't work as well - things tend to be complicated.

And I don't want some of the strings that go with the word "friend". I am inherently unreliable and I know it. My health fluctuates. My clarity of thought fluctuates. So, I prefer to not need to feel guilty for not being able to maintain relationships. So, I don't try to pretend to anyone that they can always count on me to be there os any such thing. I try to offer up who I am, and then just interact with people however those interactions go.

It's not a perfect system (to understate things), but it works at least somewhat well. So, you're the Conuly that I often interact with, enjoy reading the journal of, and would be upset if anything happened to, and I'd like good things to happen to you. Although, really, I'd like good things to happen to everyone - I think good things are good and tautologies are fun.

[thetwistedsista.livejournal.com]

People say "I'm your freind IRL a lot" when they don't. I am a person who doesn't really trust anybody-and people do make fun of me a lot. I wished they stopped that.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

OT: Did Lizzie ever stop by/call? Btw, your machine is full again.

[conuly]

Go on aim?

[sicpuppy.livejournal.com]

I think everyone gets those feelings, I sure have. I'd doubt it's anything like depression, just general insecurity and doubtfullness which we all have.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

My theory has always been "trust everyone and in the end you'll get a lot more joy out of it than you will pain." If you've been reading my live journal lately, you'll notice that I am getting some amount of pain because of it, but the amount of support that I'm getting really helps me feel better.

Quoting from the Doctor who book "Psi-ence fiction (http://www.drwhoguide.com/whobbk46.htm)" by Chris Boucher:



Continuing on the topic from earlier (http://www.livejournal.com/users/conuly/774749.html), when I buy you that CD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000005OKN/ref=m_art_li_18/002-2329720-6924042?v=glance&s=music) (and I do plan on getting it for you) you don't have to consider me a friend: Consider me instead a well wisher, in that I don't wish you any specific harm.

[l33tminion]

Yeah, I agree with that philosophy.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

You're not my friend. I don't know you nearly well enough. But I find you interesting, and I'd like to stick around if you don't mind.

[conuly]

I never mind.

[pehanoie.livejournal.com]

Excuse me- I haven't read anyone's comment so that I could get this out.

As far as saying "I'm your friend" I was brought up to think that being friends was one of those situations where you decide for the other person. Not to say that a person wouldn't say "You're my friend" to try to get you. It's more something I say in the back of my brain and keep to myself, I think. I'm not sure, I have very few friends (3, I'm sure of at the moment), each relationship is different, and I don't really have a uniform statement for all of them. I have told one friend I love her and she's it's not sexual, one is over the AIM and I've never seen her face, and one is male.

It's very hard for me to determine who my friends are, because I'm so damn distrustful. Even people I admire a lot, I say "This woman," or call them by their name. To be a friend, well, that's something totally different. I know who my friends are and how I feel about them, I'm not exactly sure how they became my friends as opposed to anyone else, escept for that we all seem to be sort of eccentric and yes, somewhat lonely people who wouldn't hurt eachother for our own personal gains.

[mizemm.livejournal.com]

I understand this very well, and do the same thing for the same reasons, although I'd never thought about it.

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

I frequently find myself saying things like "My online friend Conuly..." and then having to think "well, how exactly do I identify that particular kind of friendship that's fairly casual but also intimate...?"

"My intimate-stranger friend Conuly?"

Whatever. I call you my friend when talking about you and your journal to other people. It's easier. Plus, it means I have more friends!

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

I've had the exact same thought pattern. I've mostly just given up and continued using 'friend' because there isn't a better word to use in casual conversation. If I'm really bothered by in inadequacies of language I'll sometimes switch to "guy/girl I know online" but that's too wordy and is still only sort of accurate.

Come to think of it this happens with Conuly quite a bit because of all the cool links that I follow, read, and then want to tell other people about :)

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

for me, its not about the word and the exact meaning of the word, its about the connection that word implies. sure i dont know you one on one, but in this postmodern internet universe, our avatars or what have you, got to like, or at least find something interesting in each other, which IRL, would make us friends, or just buddies at the least.

[usnbfs.livejournal.com]

we're certainly not friends *g*

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

I don't want to offend or anything, but this plus a few other things you've said makes me want to ask...have you considered that you might have depression?

(Not saying that in a negative way. Saying it in the sense that I recognize a lot of what you're saying from my own life, and wouldn't want you to be needlessly hurting.)

Since it bothers you, I won't say you are my friend, but I will say that I care about you. :-)

[conuly]

Other people have suggested that, and it does run in my family. However, since at the moment there's literally nothing that I can do about that, I'm trying not to look into the subject.

I'm a little disturbed myself over how quickly I went from happy cheery connie to really not happy cheery connie. But then again, my public school years sucked, and this is what I'm thinking of right now.

[velasco.livejournal.com]

I have those feelings sometimes. The people who are my friends, don't need to tell me they're my friends, because they show it by their actions, and the same back to them. I honestly don't know that I've ever said or heard "I'm your friend"

And as for the paranoia thing...I sometimes feel that too, usually right before a manic-depressive depression episode :/ It isn't true (in my case, anyway, just a consequence of a mentally messed-up state.)

[xmorningxrosex.livejournal.com]

That's what I was going to say too. Friends should have a pretty good understanding of who their friends are, so saying things like "You're my friend" seems a little forced. It's one thing if you're saying, "Let's be friends" or "You're a good friend" or talking to a young'un, but otherwise it just makes me a bit nervous.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I find with LiveJournal, the borders of who is and isn't a friend get very fuzzy. Except in the jargon sense of listed on a friends list, but that doesn't mean much. I also find, the more I live, the less the term friend means to me anyway. I used to have a best friend and close friends and friends and acquaintances... and then I realized, it's all rather silly. I have people I relate to in various different ways. Trying to group them doesn't work as well - things tend to be complicated.

And I don't want some of the strings that go with the word "friend". I am inherently unreliable and I know it. My health fluctuates. My clarity of thought fluctuates. So, I prefer to not need to feel guilty for not being able to maintain relationships. So, I don't try to pretend to anyone that they can always count on me to be there os any such thing. I try to offer up who I am, and then just interact with people however those interactions go.

It's not a perfect system (to understate things), but it works at least somewhat well. So, you're the Conuly that I often interact with, enjoy reading the journal of, and would be upset if anything happened to, and I'd like good things to happen to you. Although, really, I'd like good things to happen to everyone - I think good things are good and tautologies are fun.

[thetwistedsista.livejournal.com]

People say "I'm your freind IRL a lot" when they don't. I am a person who doesn't really trust anybody-and people do make fun of me a lot. I wished they stopped that.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

OT: Did Lizzie ever stop by/call? Btw, your machine is full again.

[conuly]

Go on aim?

[sicpuppy.livejournal.com]

I think everyone gets those feelings, I sure have. I'd doubt it's anything like depression, just general insecurity and doubtfullness which we all have.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

My theory has always been "trust everyone and in the end you'll get a lot more joy out of it than you will pain." If you've been reading my live journal lately, you'll notice that I am getting some amount of pain because of it, but the amount of support that I'm getting really helps me feel better.

Quoting from the Doctor who book "Psi-ence fiction (http://www.drwhoguide.com/whobbk46.htm)" by Chris Boucher:



Continuing on the topic from earlier (http://www.livejournal.com/users/conuly/774749.html), when I buy you that CD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000005OKN/ref=m_art_li_18/002-2329720-6924042?v=glance&s=music) (and I do plan on getting it for you) you don't have to consider me a friend: Consider me instead a well wisher, in that I don't wish you any specific harm.

[l33tminion]

Yeah, I agree with that philosophy.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

You're not my friend. I don't know you nearly well enough. But I find you interesting, and I'd like to stick around if you don't mind.

[conuly]

I never mind.

[pehanoie.livejournal.com]

Excuse me- I haven't read anyone's comment so that I could get this out.

As far as saying "I'm your friend" I was brought up to think that being friends was one of those situations where you decide for the other person. Not to say that a person wouldn't say "You're my friend" to try to get you. It's more something I say in the back of my brain and keep to myself, I think. I'm not sure, I have very few friends (3, I'm sure of at the moment), each relationship is different, and I don't really have a uniform statement for all of them. I have told one friend I love her and she's it's not sexual, one is over the AIM and I've never seen her face, and one is male.

It's very hard for me to determine who my friends are, because I'm so damn distrustful. Even people I admire a lot, I say "This woman," or call them by their name. To be a friend, well, that's something totally different. I know who my friends are and how I feel about them, I'm not exactly sure how they became my friends as opposed to anyone else, escept for that we all seem to be sort of eccentric and yes, somewhat lonely people who wouldn't hurt eachother for our own personal gains.