On manners...

[conuly]

I was reading a post in linguaphiles, and somebody commented in a tangent that a person they'd held the door for had neglected to say thank you. When the commentor said sarcasticly (sardonicly?) you're welcome!, they got a nasty look.

Well, what did they expect from this? The first person, the one who didn't say thank you (or didn't say it audibly, I've often been accused of skipping niceties because I said them softly) was rude by omission. They neglected to say something that was expected. But the second person was even ruder. This is the rule I had drummed into my little head when I was a child. Except in a limited set of circumstances, you do not correct other people's manners. You do not correct their manners in public. You do not correct them by being snotty, snide, or otherwise offensive. You definitely do not correct them by being snotty in public. That's about the rudest thing you can possibly do.

As for holding doors open for people, offering seats on the bus, and similar things, you don't do these things because you expect to be thanked. You do them because you're civilized and that's what civilized people do. If you get thanked, it's a bonus, and if you don't, you smile and act as though the other person thanked you, because expecting to be thanked is almost as bad as not thanking.

Period, end of story. So when you compound your original error (doing something nice for a fleeting sense of personal gratification instead of the fact that it's the right thing to do) by rudely correcting the person who neglected to thank you - well, of course you get a bad reaction! That person has already demonstrated that they aren't too great with the little words of thanks that apparently grease our society, do you really think they want a rude twit like you acting holier than thou about it?

Comments

[leora.livejournal.com]

Indeed. Plus, there are so many reasons a person might not say thank you. And you don't have any idea of what the case may be when it's a stranger.

When I hold the door for people, I generally prefer they just go through and continue about their lives. I like to hold doors as it's helpful and I'm rarely in a hurry, but I don't like a whole lot of social interaction or extra attention called to me.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I often hold doors for people, and since our building has three sets of doots, I end up doing so three times, and then they thank me three times, and then I say you're welcome three times ... drives me nuts.

Last week, my husband and I went to pick up our new glasses. We had to wait about two hours because the ophthamologist was so crowded and because the lab had badly bent the frames when putting the lenses in (the arms were at a 60° angle from the eyepiece) and ... yeah, it was bad. And putting on/taking off my badly bent glasses (and switching between them and my old pair) gave me a killer headache, and my husband was having similar (though not quite as bad issues), and ... yeah. It was nasty.

Anyway so my point is that at 7:30 as we were leaving (having been at the ophthamologist since 5:45), we stopped at the next available place that sold food, because there was no way either of us was up to cooking. As I reached the door, someone was coming out, so I suppose you could say he held it open for me, sort of. And then my husband came in after me and before he (my husband) even got through the door, the guy said "you're welcome" in a really rude voice. And we were like, what?

In any case, I would say that my personal rule of thumb is to thank anyone who goes out of their way to hold a door for me (e.g. is in front of me, stops, opens the door, lets me go through before him/her; or if he/she is doing it because I'm carrying something heavy and so he/she runs ahead to open it, etc.) but that it's not necessary if the person is going through the door anyway (either in the same direction or the opposite direction) and just kind of props it open a second longer on the way, usually without even stopping.

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

Was this prompted by Moggy's post on the same subject (http://www.livejournal.com/~moggymania/602014.html)? (I posted a further comment on the topic and its Aspie-relatedness...)

[conuly]

Nope, from linguaphiles, as I said.

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I just thought it was a strange coincidence that Moggy had a completely independent post on the same subject a couple days ago, and wondered if that was an additional influence. ::shrugs::

[conuly]

If it was, it was subconscious.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

I once sent a question to a "Miss Manners" type of advice column (though I never got a response) asking what the proper way of dealing with a sarcastic "you're welcome!" is. The reason I asked is that my now-ex once bought me lunch, and halfway through the meal she said loudly and sarcastically, "YOU'RE WELCOME!!!" I had intended to thank her at the end of the meal, but when she did that I had no desire to thank her at all.

Someone re-made an icon for me once, and I downloaded it and then completely forgot about it. I don't even remember who made it for me. I think it was in one of the ASL communities. But somewhere along the line I got a comment left in reply to the comment telling me he'd made the icon, saying "You're welcome!" I felt bad, but I didn't say anything because I had no clue what to say. I had completely and totally forgotten about the icon.

[leora.livejournal.com]

In person, smile and possibly give a small nod. Online, just ignore it.

Generally, if someone says something sarcastically that is rude, the most polite (and infuriating) thing to do is to act exactly as you would had they said it sincerely.

[neurotica0.livejournal.com]

People often miss that I've said thank you or excuse me, so I get a lot of rude looks. *sigh*

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

Ugh, my "thank you"s tend to be so quiet that I get the glare too. Siiiigh. It's usually because I don't speak a lot, except at home or when teaching, so when someone opens a door for me, me trying to thank them could be the first words I'd said for hours--so my voice is rough from mild disuse.

(The red pen doesn't know how to spell "sarcastically" or "sardonically"? Silly!)

[conuly]

Yes, well, the red pen had a fight with the dictionary over spellcheck. It all ended when spellcheck and dictionary ran off together to celebrate their illicit love, leaving poor red pen cuckolded.

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

Ooh, harsh. You should turn to the thesaurus for comfort!

[conuly]

That stuck up jerk? Spellcheck will eventually leave that bastard Dictionary, I just know it. And then we can consummate our illicit love....

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

If you get thanked, it's a bonus...

Yep...though by just doing it I DO feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Just DOING it is my gratification. A "thanks" and/or a smile and/or nod gives it the little "inner squee!" factor.

I have the same philosophy about playing games...what fun is it, really, if you're NOT having fun but just playing to win? It makes it no fun for the other person either if you're playing like that (unless of course they really don't care what their opponent is like or just get a kick out of people like that). My husband and I were talking about that tonight, pondering why this one guy gets SO ANGRY if he gets beaten in a Magic: the Gathering game. He's in the Top 25 IN THE WORLD...so that's pretty impressive. But heck even Michael Jordan got beaten in basketball relatively regularly, even though he's one of the best basketball players to ever live. So this guy got super grouchy tonight from having lost one game in a tournament, and it was making his presence not-fun. He'll even cheat to "win" if things aren't looking like they're going his way.

[absurdixie.livejournal.com]

I find it quite intimidating to have "You're Welcome" said sarcastically. I do say thank you, but sometimes I'm in a rush so a nod is all I can manage. I realise some people may have trouble understanding what a nod would mean, but not everyone so it gets a bit tiresome, really.

Though, what I find most upsetting, is not a sarcastic correction as you put it, but the person holding the door whispering about you to a friend once you have passed. Occasionally even when you HAVE said 'Thanks'.

[conuly]

Oh, I hate that. Wait until I get out of earshot, assholes!

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I'm a daddy's girl. My dad taught me to, well, for lack of better word, to be a gentleman no matter what.

I open doors for people, women especially, I stand when a woman enters the room, I pull out chairs for the women in my group when I go to restaurants, I follow behind women when they go up stairs (to catch them, should they fall) and precede them going down (so if they fall, they'll land on me and not get hurt).

If I get a thank you, lovely, and if I don't, it doesn't matter. What I do I do because I respect the people around me, not because I need the acknowledgement.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Indeed. Plus, there are so many reasons a person might not say thank you. And you don't have any idea of what the case may be when it's a stranger.

When I hold the door for people, I generally prefer they just go through and continue about their lives. I like to hold doors as it's helpful and I'm rarely in a hurry, but I don't like a whole lot of social interaction or extra attention called to me.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I often hold doors for people, and since our building has three sets of doots, I end up doing so three times, and then they thank me three times, and then I say you're welcome three times ... drives me nuts.

Last week, my husband and I went to pick up our new glasses. We had to wait about two hours because the ophthamologist was so crowded and because the lab had badly bent the frames when putting the lenses in (the arms were at a 60° angle from the eyepiece) and ... yeah, it was bad. And putting on/taking off my badly bent glasses (and switching between them and my old pair) gave me a killer headache, and my husband was having similar (though not quite as bad issues), and ... yeah. It was nasty.

Anyway so my point is that at 7:30 as we were leaving (having been at the ophthamologist since 5:45), we stopped at the next available place that sold food, because there was no way either of us was up to cooking. As I reached the door, someone was coming out, so I suppose you could say he held it open for me, sort of. And then my husband came in after me and before he (my husband) even got through the door, the guy said "you're welcome" in a really rude voice. And we were like, what?

In any case, I would say that my personal rule of thumb is to thank anyone who goes out of their way to hold a door for me (e.g. is in front of me, stops, opens the door, lets me go through before him/her; or if he/she is doing it because I'm carrying something heavy and so he/she runs ahead to open it, etc.) but that it's not necessary if the person is going through the door anyway (either in the same direction or the opposite direction) and just kind of props it open a second longer on the way, usually without even stopping.

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

Was this prompted by Moggy's post on the same subject (http://www.livejournal.com/~moggymania/602014.html)? (I posted a further comment on the topic and its Aspie-relatedness...)

[conuly]

Nope, from linguaphiles, as I said.

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I just thought it was a strange coincidence that Moggy had a completely independent post on the same subject a couple days ago, and wondered if that was an additional influence. ::shrugs::

[conuly]

If it was, it was subconscious.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

I once sent a question to a "Miss Manners" type of advice column (though I never got a response) asking what the proper way of dealing with a sarcastic "you're welcome!" is. The reason I asked is that my now-ex once bought me lunch, and halfway through the meal she said loudly and sarcastically, "YOU'RE WELCOME!!!" I had intended to thank her at the end of the meal, but when she did that I had no desire to thank her at all.

Someone re-made an icon for me once, and I downloaded it and then completely forgot about it. I don't even remember who made it for me. I think it was in one of the ASL communities. But somewhere along the line I got a comment left in reply to the comment telling me he'd made the icon, saying "You're welcome!" I felt bad, but I didn't say anything because I had no clue what to say. I had completely and totally forgotten about the icon.

[leora.livejournal.com]

In person, smile and possibly give a small nod. Online, just ignore it.

Generally, if someone says something sarcastically that is rude, the most polite (and infuriating) thing to do is to act exactly as you would had they said it sincerely.

[neurotica0.livejournal.com]

People often miss that I've said thank you or excuse me, so I get a lot of rude looks. *sigh*

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

Ugh, my "thank you"s tend to be so quiet that I get the glare too. Siiiigh. It's usually because I don't speak a lot, except at home or when teaching, so when someone opens a door for me, me trying to thank them could be the first words I'd said for hours--so my voice is rough from mild disuse.

(The red pen doesn't know how to spell "sarcastically" or "sardonically"? Silly!)

[conuly]

Yes, well, the red pen had a fight with the dictionary over spellcheck. It all ended when spellcheck and dictionary ran off together to celebrate their illicit love, leaving poor red pen cuckolded.

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

Ooh, harsh. You should turn to the thesaurus for comfort!

[conuly]

That stuck up jerk? Spellcheck will eventually leave that bastard Dictionary, I just know it. And then we can consummate our illicit love....

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

If you get thanked, it's a bonus...

Yep...though by just doing it I DO feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Just DOING it is my gratification. A "thanks" and/or a smile and/or nod gives it the little "inner squee!" factor.

I have the same philosophy about playing games...what fun is it, really, if you're NOT having fun but just playing to win? It makes it no fun for the other person either if you're playing like that (unless of course they really don't care what their opponent is like or just get a kick out of people like that). My husband and I were talking about that tonight, pondering why this one guy gets SO ANGRY if he gets beaten in a Magic: the Gathering game. He's in the Top 25 IN THE WORLD...so that's pretty impressive. But heck even Michael Jordan got beaten in basketball relatively regularly, even though he's one of the best basketball players to ever live. So this guy got super grouchy tonight from having lost one game in a tournament, and it was making his presence not-fun. He'll even cheat to "win" if things aren't looking like they're going his way.

[absurdixie.livejournal.com]

I find it quite intimidating to have "You're Welcome" said sarcastically. I do say thank you, but sometimes I'm in a rush so a nod is all I can manage. I realise some people may have trouble understanding what a nod would mean, but not everyone so it gets a bit tiresome, really.

Though, what I find most upsetting, is not a sarcastic correction as you put it, but the person holding the door whispering about you to a friend once you have passed. Occasionally even when you HAVE said 'Thanks'.

[conuly]

Oh, I hate that. Wait until I get out of earshot, assholes!

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I'm a daddy's girl. My dad taught me to, well, for lack of better word, to be a gentleman no matter what.

I open doors for people, women especially, I stand when a woman enters the room, I pull out chairs for the women in my group when I go to restaurants, I follow behind women when they go up stairs (to catch them, should they fall) and precede them going down (so if they fall, they'll land on me and not get hurt).

If I get a thank you, lovely, and if I don't, it doesn't matter. What I do I do because I respect the people around me, not because I need the acknowledgement.