It is amazing how angry people get
Feb. 3rd, 2026 08:09 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
conulywhen all you say is "Listen, it's not true that you can't know how to pronounce an unfamiliar word by looking at it, there are rules that will work with a high degree of accuracy".
And every time, sooner or later somebody or other will condescend to tell me that if I'd only phrased it better, they would've listened to what I was saying. It's not the message, it's the way I said that that caused these people to think I was calling them stupid.
None of those people will ever give me the magically better words they think will remedy this problem, though I do ask every single time people suggest it to me, and honestly, I don't think there are any. I think the problem is that people don't want to hear the message at all. If you say "You ought to have been taught these rules in childhood" then they feel ashamed for not knowing something basic and obvious, and even if you don't say it but just mention that rules exist they feel stupid, and then either way they blame you for making them feel bad.
And since that's the case, I don't really see the need to trouble myself too much over my phrasing. Actually, bizarre as it is, I've found that trying harder to be bland and conciliatory is likely to make the situation worse.
But I may as well open it up to other people. Do you have the magic words?
(Note: I don't have any spelling or reading curriculum that are designed for self-study by adult learners who can already read and write pretty well but who struggle with spelling or sounding out unfamiliar words and claim to believe there is no method other than to guess or else memorize each word as an arbitrary collection of letters, which is most of the people I encounter in this situation because, of course, we're all posting online. However, if you're working with somebody to remediate spelling on a budget, I can recommend starting, if they have no signs of ADHD or dyslexia, with Spalding - making the modifications here - and/or Apples and Pears if they do, and then, if they still need help, moving on to Megawords. Those are highly scripted and, importantly - easy to buy on the cheap. I really don't love Spalding, I found it way too front-loaded for ADHD, plus Wanda Spalding had a lot of little personal peeves she built in if you don't use the modifications I suggested, but it's hands-down the cheapest Orton-Gillingham program you'll find for teaching reading and spelling together. Apples and Pears has an associated reading curriculum that probably also is good, but E only needed help in spelling, so I don't know.)
And every time, sooner or later somebody or other will condescend to tell me that if I'd only phrased it better, they would've listened to what I was saying. It's not the message, it's the way I said that that caused these people to think I was calling them stupid.
None of those people will ever give me the magically better words they think will remedy this problem, though I do ask every single time people suggest it to me, and honestly, I don't think there are any. I think the problem is that people don't want to hear the message at all. If you say "You ought to have been taught these rules in childhood" then they feel ashamed for not knowing something basic and obvious, and even if you don't say it but just mention that rules exist they feel stupid, and then either way they blame you for making them feel bad.
And since that's the case, I don't really see the need to trouble myself too much over my phrasing. Actually, bizarre as it is, I've found that trying harder to be bland and conciliatory is likely to make the situation worse.
But I may as well open it up to other people. Do you have the magic words?
(Note: I don't have any spelling or reading curriculum that are designed for self-study by adult learners who can already read and write pretty well but who struggle with spelling or sounding out unfamiliar words and claim to believe there is no method other than to guess or else memorize each word as an arbitrary collection of letters, which is most of the people I encounter in this situation because, of course, we're all posting online. However, if you're working with somebody to remediate spelling on a budget, I can recommend starting, if they have no signs of ADHD or dyslexia, with Spalding - making the modifications here - and/or Apples and Pears if they do, and then, if they still need help, moving on to Megawords. Those are highly scripted and, importantly - easy to buy on the cheap. I really don't love Spalding, I found it way too front-loaded for ADHD, plus Wanda Spalding had a lot of little personal peeves she built in if you don't use the modifications I suggested, but it's hands-down the cheapest Orton-Gillingham program you'll find for teaching reading and spelling together. Apples and Pears has an associated reading curriculum that probably also is good, but E only needed help in spelling, so I don't know.)
no subject
Date: 2026-02-01 12:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2026-02-01 01:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2026-02-01 02:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2026-02-01 02:52 pm (UTC)But even the 2 years I spent at a much less relaxed state primary school didn't formally teach English pronunciation rules.
I think in Australia, for people born in the 1970s, it was a "pick up how to say things by osmosis" [excluding Deaf students and students who did speech therapy]
and I know dozens of people of my generation who reached university saying some English words wrong because they learned them from books and never heard them spoken out loud.
(I *was* taught French pronunciation rules when doing high school French; and German pronunciation rules when doing high school German)
But, yeah, the first time I ever heard about formal pronunciation rules for English was when I went to a medieval history conference at university [an optional extra for students, graduates, and the general public] and they were talking about thorns and yods and why ghost is spelled like that and weird remnant/residual spellings in English words.
(Thorn is really cool, no longer used these days in modern English
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
no subject
Date: 2026-02-01 03:29 pm (UTC)