I'm curious...

[conuly]

Because I never understood this.

What's the big deal about national id card = evil? Why do people think that? How is it different from combining a state ID and a social security card? Don't many countries in Europe have a national ID (I don't know, actually...)?

Comments

[ril-chan.livejournal.com]

According to many Christians ::coughmymothercough::, it has something to do with Revelations, the End Times, the Antichrist....

I don't get it either. :/

[mhari.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a fine idea to me if I can actually GET ONE.

[/bitter about bureaucracy]

[eofs.livejournal.com]

A number of EU countries have them, yes. I have no clue what state IDs or social security cards are, so can't comment on that. I'm just generally not particularly keen on the idea. They're trying to implement them in the UK. And want us to pay £70 for the privilege.

Rearrange those sentences into an order that makes sense.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

I for one would love a national id card. I don't have a driver's licence and don't see myself getting one in the near future, which has made for many hassles when I try to prove that I am in fact me (just a me without a car.) I suppose some people of a paranoid bent have reservations about being organised into some national registry, but to be realistic, if you've ever had a credit card, a driver's licence, a house, insurance, or a passport, you're only a Google-search away anyway.

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Well.......

The next step after a National ID is to combine everything with your ID. Your frequent-shopper card at Safeway. Your Blockbuster card. Your health insurance card.

So, then you get things like: "Oh, I'm sorry, Mrs. Bryant. I can't sell you a pizza because your health insurance has a flag here about cholesterol. Would you like the small side salad instead?"

Or, better still, getting pulled over for a routine traffic violation and, when they run your ID, getting put into cuffs while they search for methamphetamines because you happened to buy both brake fluid and Sudafed last week. Or because I bought a copy of "Soldier of Fortune" magazine.

How about having your college or university decide that the four weeks you went to visit your folks in another state mean you've lost residency and now must pay $15,000 in out-of-state tuition increases? They know about these four weeks, of course, because your national ID is used to board an airplane as well as to register for your classes (ostensibly because they want to make sure no for'ners with expired student visas can sign up for school).

This all, of course, ignores the fact that the IDs will almost certainly have an RFID in them, so their movement can even be tracked (and therefore, yours).

It's basically another way to monitor your activity, this time at a national level. Even people who prefer larger government get uneasy at the level of surveillance that's already available to ours.

[cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Entirely.

I don't want to be in the government's databases. I am already, but that doesn't mean I have to give them more information, more of a hold on me.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

While having a picture I.D. for someone who doesn't drive is useful (I have a B.C.I.D. card that serves the same purpose as a driver's licence; it's used anywhere you need picture I.D.) What worries me about this one is that according to one of the articles I saw, you'd need it to be able to travel. Also, just the idea of the government "requiring" you to have anything raises my hackles. I have a Social Insurance Card and a picture I.D.; those should be all anyone needs.

[thren0dy.livejournal.com]

I agree. I'm all about privacy, so it's a good thing I live in Montana which has really strict privacy laws, and that's the way we like it. Giving the gub'mint more info on the pretense of being able to track possible wrongdoers (or whatever the reasoning behind this is) punishes the non-wrongdoers. I may sound like I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist for thinking this way, but hey. :)

[conuly]

A state ID is either a driver's license or a non-driver's license (they both come from the DMV). A social security number is what you need to get a job, and the card proves you have a number.

[conuly]

That's really a slippery slope argument. It sounds to me like it's just a consolidation of state ID systems. Now, I'd love it if this huge-ass nation were no less than 4 smaller nations (and alaska and hawaii), because I think the system we have now is inefficient, but that's a different issue.

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Hey, you asked why people are against the idea. I explained why I'm against them. You don't have to agree with me, you know, or think that my argument is even valid. I'm just letting you know the argument that sold me.

[conuly]

I know! Don't worry, I'm not saying "my god! That's stupid!" I'm just saying "huh. Well, I don't agree with this argument because I think the population of the US is not quite that stupid as to let things get that bad". Which is really a debatable idea in and of itself :)

[celticess.livejournal.com]

I don't know what the big deal is either. I have a BCID card. We just seem to have them provincially here same with drivers licenses. *shrug* But it would probably be handier if they had canada wide with something to id people well like a finger print. Easier to find/capture bad people I figure or easier to prove who you are when you need to deal with government, etc.

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

LOL! Absolutely!

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I see. Our National Insurance cards (social security equivalent) state explicitly on them that they cannot be used as ID.

*Grabs her wallet* I am currently carrying...

ID that proves I live in this flat/room
National Insurance Card
*Railcard for UK
*Rail Staff Travel Identity Card for UK (and the pass to go with it)
*Finnish bus pass (not my travelcard for general Helsinki travel, this is for further afield)
Helsinki studentcard (just a paper one - there is an additional card I would have were I here for longer)
*International Student Identity Card
*National Union of Students Card (technically out of date, but staying there until I get a new one in January)
*English University Enrolment Card (also out of date, kept for the same reason)
*English University Library Card (and again...)

Asterisked are photo-IDs.

None of them are proof of identity. Which is why I carry my passport (well, if I have whichever bag it happens to be in at the time with me.)

The one thing I wouldn't mind a national ID card for is ease of travel within the European Union. At the moment I just use my passport, but I'm a little envious of friends who can cross borders just with an ID card. Of course, since I would still require my passport to cross my own country's borders, it wouldn't make any difference.

I think my major objection to a mandatory national ID is that once they force everyone to have one, they can force everyone to show one.

And there's the issue of paying for the privilege too, but that's more specificly a UK issue.

[latenightparty.livejournal.com]

Dude, I wanna move to Montana.

I feel really uneasy about the tracking-people's-activities thing. I'm not involved in any criminal activity, but still, the thought of being spied on by the government... ugh.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

If you're in the United States (which I don't know if you are), you should be able to get a State ID Card which is as valid as a driver's license (and looks like one) but does not allow you to drive. That's what I do.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

I'm in Canada, actually - and while I could get one of the new health cards to serve as picture ID, unfortunately not even those are accepted everywhere a driver's licence is. I'm almost tempted to try the driver's test - with no intention to drive afterwards - just to have that permanent ID for the next sixty years.

Thanks for the advice anyway :-)

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

Go to the office where you apply for a driver's licence and ask for a B.C.I.D. card. It looks just like a driver's licence and is accepted anywhere a driver's licence is accepted.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Thanks :-) But even though I'm going to school in BC, I'm actually a legal resident of Ontario. Any clue on whether I'm still eligible for one?

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

You'll have to ask at the motor vehicle office. I think you just have to live here, but don't take my word for it.

Warning: Comment in the language of "lamer" follows.

[queengodzilla.livejournal.com]

ITZ B/C ITS STAN!!!!!!!111111 IST TEH MARK OF THE BEEST!!!!!!!!1111 IF U GET 1, TEHN U R OF SANTA!!!1111 U WILL BE DAMMED 4EVR & EVER. TAHTS WATS RONG!!1111

I just had to do that. XD

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'll definitely be checking it out.

national id card

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

yes, the national id card, as some people have posted, is a way to better coordinate state identification systems in to a national database. however, ther are many other sinister purposes for such a card. many of them have been highlighted by one of the previous posters. HOWEVER, there are also many more sinister purposes in this, especially if you have been following conspiracy theories. i do not subscribe to all the theories, but after reading the text of the patriot act 1, and the text of the proposed patriot act 2, i am highly alarmed that such headway is being madeon this.

the patriot act has provisons in it allowing for the subpoena of your "library and book shopping" records, which will be tracked through the proposed id card. among other things, i wanted to highlight this as it is alarming to me moreso than alot of other things.

basically, the id card would be made to allow for better tracking of us citizenry, not neccessarily for sinister purposes, but more to protect us from this terrorist threat, and to watch for terrorist behaviors. my problem with it is that absolute power corrupts absolutely, and coupled with absolute information about someone, hell, that is goddam scary. i donot trust that it wouldnt be put to sinister purposes in this day and age, especially not with everything that is going on right now.

conservatives and religious zealots get into power, and then they start rounding up "undesirables" based on the information on their national id card. for national security of course. for the security of our children and youth, and the health of our marriages.

[conuly]

That explains why Bush is promoting it, him of Israel is good, it's bringinb about the Apocalypse!