My dentist has a habit of playing music

[conuly]

often show tunes mixed in with Disney songs - which are, of course, show tunes but G-rated and animated.

Anyway, for this reason I'm currently watching Frozen for the very first time ever. I've seen clips of the Let It Go song before, but that's it. (I've also read all possible synopses and can't be much spoiled.)

Two things spring to mind regarding their musical choices:

1. The music sounds much more modern than I expect from Disney and, in particular, Disney princesses. Can't quite put my finger on it, but something about what they do with the melodies.

2. According to TvTropes you might not know Kristoff is supposed to be Sami unless you read the supplemental material, but I'm not sure how that's possible. His intro song sounds very Movie Native American, and since this isn't set in the Americas that leaves us with few viable options. I'm a little concerned about the fact that I correctly interpreted this musical cue. I mean, it's gotta be racist in some way. But, happily, I didn't choose it so I'll just blame Disney for this one. Edit: In this particular case their intro music apparently is realistically based on actual Sami music, so I'll retract my worries. Disney has a past history, though, so it's reasonable for me to be a little concerned in general.

2a. Also he's got a reindeer? I mean, what are we supposed to think, that he just randomly has a pet reindeer?

2b. FYI, that's another population gravely affected by residential schooling with an eye towards cultural genocide.

Comments

[dark_phoenix54]

It's not racist if you recognize the trope; it's racist if you *use* the trope. I vote that you're clean on this one.

[conuly]

Yeah, that's the conclusion I'm choosing to come to as well.

[alessandriana]

Re: 2, I've only seen the movie once so I'm not sure which song that is, but I know some of the music was based on actual Sami music and written by a Sami composer. https://nowtoronto.com/movies/news-features/disney-frozen-2-indigenous-culture-sami

[conuly]

Well... if that's the case, then I guess "Hollywood Movie Native American-esque" is a coincidentally accurate sound.

And I guess in this one case I shouldn't attribute racism to Disney, but honestly, they often are, so.

[alessandriana]

Yeah, historically they've been pretty bad. I think they're trying to get better, though.

[conuly]

They're trying, but they still goof up.

Jenn watched The Princess and the Frog with the kids recently, because they love the movie and she'd never seen it. I've never seen it either, having written it off years ago based on something she realized about fifteen minutes in....

"Wait, does their first Black princess spend the entire movie as a frog!?"

Yes, Jenn, yes she does.

[alessandriana]

Yeah, that's on the early end of their 'trying' phase, imho. Moana was when I felt like they actually started to take it a little more seriously, and that was only 4 years ago. Not exactly ahead of their time.

[conuly]

And Moana is not set among any actual Polynesian people either - it's a grabbag of props and settings. Which... on the one hand, it's not that different than setting Cinderella in Generic European Fantasyland but... on the other hand, it sort of is?

[alessandriana]

I'm mostly talking about the way they did research for the film. There's a good article about it here: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/moana-oceanic-trust-disney-controversy-pacific-islanders-polynesia

And then there's another, more nuanced article here: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-story-moana-and-maui-holds-against-cultural-truths-180961258/

Definitely not saying Disney did a perfect job with Moana, but they seem to have done a better job at seeking out feedback for it than in the past.

and now you can truly enjoy the Honest Trailer.

[ironymaiden]

Honest Trailer
bonus Hasa Diga Eebowai

Re: and now you can truly enjoy the Honest Trailer.

[ironymaiden]

That second one is NSFW/kiddos

Re: and now you can truly enjoy the Honest Trailer.

[conuly]

So who goes to work nowadays anyway?

Re: and now you can truly enjoy the Honest Trailer.

[vvalkyri]

Okay I loved the honest trailer

[hudebnik]

After watching "Frozen" for the first time (and having heard that it had some connection to Andersen's "The Snow Queen"), we (more precisely shalmestere) mail-ordered a DVD of Atamanov's 1957 "The Snow Queen", which I gather is actually a fairly close adaptation of the Andersen story, and does have characters of several different far-north ethnicities. And most of the interesting and/or empowered characters are female.

[raino]

Yeah, the way Sami people were treated is a shameful part of Finnish history (also probably other Nordic countries but don't know so much about that). And even today Sami land use rights get disturbingly easily brushed aside when economic issues arise, like proposed new railway to Barents Sea through traditional Sami lands :(

[l33tminion]

The music sounds much more modern than I expect from Disney

That was one of my complaints about the movie, that most of the music (a few exceptions) seemed too modern-pop-y to seem to fit the setting.

what are we supposed to think, that he just randomly has a pet reindeer?

Well, not a pet.

Young Sven shows up in the intro scene with the ice-cutters and young Kristoff, I thought, so presumably he got the reindeer from them? It's not really fleshed out, though, since nothing in this movie's setting and background is fleshed out. Is it even spelled out in the movie whether Kristoff is related to the icecutters? I'm open to the idea that Disney is smuggling in some bad connotations here, but I can't think of what in the text is actually doing that.

(That's my other complaint about the movie, just how flimsily constructed every part of the background is. It's not so much a problem outside of the main plot, but it's totally unexplained why Hans doesn't face any obstacles in his takeover plan. Even if everyone in the government hates Elsa, why favor handing over everything to a foreigner whose sole claim to political legitimacy is a totally unwitnessed deathbed marriage to the queen's sister?)

[conuly]

Even if everyone in the government hates Elsa, why favor handing over everything to a foreigner whose sole claim to political legitimacy is a totally unwitnessed deathbed marriage to the queen's sister?

Maybe Elsa and Anna have no other relatives reasonably in line, and they're looking at a messy succession crisis anyway, so why not hang behind the guy who seems to have it all together already?

And to be fair, Hans certainly does appear to be competent and level-headed. Sure, he's appallingly immoral, but being a bad person doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a bad king. Even his evil plan was well-executed, with a minimum of unnecessary violence and murder.

But yes, I was definitely sitting there going "You got married with no witness!?" at that scene. I'd've expected him to have paid somebody off first. It's worse than "I'm marrying somebody I just met!" if you ask me. (And even without being spoiled for the ending, just fyi, I think Anna should've been a little more concerned about the fact that Prince Whoever of Wherever had twelve older brothers.)

[l33tminion]

The movie doesn't do really anything to imply that Elsa was actually in charge the whole time after her parents died, though. (Though the movie doesn't imply much about anything in the setting, and it just time-skips from shortly after the parents die to the day of the coronation.) Still, whoever was (even nominally) serving as regent until yesterday might not be super enthusiastic about the new guy, however competent he seems.

(Also, they might not be pleased to be ignored as a candidate for the job they had until that morning in favor of the queen's-sister's-boyfriend-who-she-just-met.)

[conuly]

Still, whoever was (even nominally) serving as regent until yesterday might not be super enthusiastic about the new guy, however competent he seems.

Yes, Hans is jumping the gun a bit, as he was with his same-day proposal. But he probably figured that the worst that could happen is they'd say no. If anybody could pull this nearly-bloodless coup off, I can think of worse people to bet on.

[l33tminion]

It's a bit different, he has reasons to believe Anna will fall for it that are depicted onscreen. And Elsa is there and she's part of the real cast so she gets to be suspicious. And the stakes are lower, for obvious reasons.

Later on, no one even goes to verify the "Anna is dead" part of his story. Even if they believe it, you'd expect the palace staff would try to tend to the body right away and be alarmed when that was missing.