So, one of our two protagonists is a slave conscript in the space army that conquered his homeworld

[conuly]

We're not told if they just rolled up and enslaved some percentage or all of the population, or if this is some sort of punishment for something somebody in his family or general vicinity is alleged to have done against the new space-y overlords, or if it's just a bit of bad luck that when he was a child his family needed cash to pay taxes or whatever and made the painful choice to sell off some of their extra children. I'm beginning to suspect we'll never get an answer to this, which is a pity because I think that would really affect my view of the worldbuilding.

But at any rate, he's a slave, all his comrades are enslaved, they'll blow up if they try to desert escape. The evil military of the evil empire is controlling them through the triple threat of pain, instant death, and the intense loyalty they've been socialized to have for their teammates since childhood - no good running if you leave them behind, right? So far so good, but it still seems that this is an amazingly error-prone and inefficient means of running a military. I mean, coercion is always an inefficient means of getting labor out of people, but it just strikes me as ultimately a bad plan, no matter how many failsafes you think you have, to put the job of subduing new worlds into the hands of the people who are themselves suffering in a very personal way from the time you conquered their world. It sounds like the kind of thing that works right up until the very minute it doesn't and when it stops working, as it's bound to, sooner or later, the fallout will be spectacular and possibly literal.

I don't think the powers that be have adequately thought this through, is all.

************

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Comments

[heron61]

Why copying the populist right isn’t going to save the left

This was (for me at least) a fairly hopeful article, especially for the US. One problem most of Western Europe will continue to have is that all of those nations (and especially citizens of those nations) are overwhelmingly composed of white people whose ancestors were born there.

The US is nothing like that, and so if we can toss out the center left anti-immigrant pander to the "working class" (by which they mean white bigots of all incomes) nonsense, when we can perhaps form a solid coalition of progressive white people and people of color - each grow alone is a distinct minority, but together we outnumber the racist scumbags by a fair amount.

[jack]

Wait, he was raised since a child, and brainwashed, but they didn't manage to raise him with some "conquering is good, actually" propaganda?

I think there is some precedent here. I think Roman armies were often from conquered provinces, and plenty of armies have conscription. But there's still a lot of telling people they want to be here and it will be worth it, even if they didn't believe that to start with.

How did it turn out?

[jesuswasbatman]

The Ottoman Empire worked like that for a long time, although they did have some issues. The Roman Auxiliaries were usually voluntarily recruited (the carrot was Roman citizenship if you served your full term).

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Yes, I was going to mention the Mamluks taken from Christian youth. Though, they did start a dynasty which was counter to the point originally that they wouldn't have family ties to muddy their commitment to duty. Power vacuums be like that.

[conuly]

Since he was 9, so.

And he's not going to become a citizen, either. He's just going to be sent back home after his term of service is up, without anything like adequate mental health care.

How did it turn out?

The war seems to be going badly, and pretty much everybody he grew up with is dead or MIA. But he got away and nobody conquered earth yet.

[conuly]

And it eventually all fell apart.

[conuly]

The Ottoman Empire fell apart, as did Rome. Their centers could not hold, mere anarchy was loosed upon the world, etc etc etc.

[greghousesgf]

why do they call people from Indiana hoosiers? I've often wondered that.

[siderea]

so if we can toss out the center left anti-immigrant pander to the "working class" (by which they mean white bigots of all incomes) nonsense

So long as liberals and the left conceive as "the working class" just as a euphemism for "white bigots of all incomes", it will not be able to budge the needle on anti-immigrant pandering. Promise.

They have a legitimate problem and an illegitimate solution. If you don't treat the working class as a real thing and a population which has certain real problems in need of addressing, they will continue on their merry way getting seduced by every demogogue to float xenophobia as a campaign promise.

[siderea]

Yeah, I was just thinking, "Hmm, didn't I hear someone quip that triremes taught the Romans that fighting wars with slaves doesn't work out too hot."

That said, all these historical precidents demonstrate that just because something is a bad idea, doesn't mean people don't do it, and it's a perfectly plausible premise for a story. It's idiocy, but it's venerable idiocy.

[siderea]

Blurred lines: A pregnant man’s tragedy tests gender notions:

A woman showing up with similar symptoms “would almost surely have been triaged and evaluated more urgently for pregnancy-related problems,” the authors wrote.

AHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAH AHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAH *wipes tear away* Good one.

I keep hoping that the existence of trans men will mean that some day I will get to have a gynecologist used to treating men. Because all my other physicians, I can just act like a dude to get treated more like a person, but that trick doesn't work on gynecologists.

[heron61]

I entirely agree. In case it wasn't clear, I meant that too many on the center left (at least in the US) equate working class with white bigots - ignoring both the 40+% of the working class who aren't white and also the white members of the working class who actually want something like economic justice and fairness and not mobs of brownshirts. I'm increasingly thinking that the only solution this problem is to replace as many of the old white men in both Democratic elected office and in the party hierarchy with younger, more clueful people of color

[conuly]

Likewise, there is a reason repeated Spartan plans for arming the Helots as a backup force all failed in committee.

[conuly]

I think the answer, alas, is "nobody knows".

[conuly]

I'm thinking the solution is to change our voting process to ditch the two party system, which is ultimately a one party system except one smells worse than the other.

[siderea]

Okay, I appreciate the distinction you're making, and I apologize, I did indeed miss that subtlety though you did explicate it.

Still. "Just stop xenophobic pandering" isn't going to work, for the same reason it worked in the first place: it works, and some asshole will always turn up to take advantage of it. We need to neutralize the vuln or this will keep happening.

[conuly]

Vuln?

[conuly]

Having never gone to the doctor with these symptoms, I don't know the odds either way.

[larryhammer]

A former coworker has adopted, twice, girls who had been removed from deeply abusive family situations. BACA has been a part of their lives since the git go. She loves what they do.

For while last year, BACA had a bunch of publicity ads at bus-stops around the city. Haven't seen one for a few months, though.

[mme-n-b.livejournal.com]

It worked for Soviet Union.

[conuly]

And where's the USSR now?

[mme-n-b.livejournal.com]

Irrelevant, because we don't confuse economics and sanity with military strategy :) USSR won every war it ever participated in, mainly because of not giving a shit about losses. As for mental care for soldiers - that's hilarious. I can just about imagine it working with zagradotrjady.

[conuly]

Look, I'm just saying this is a ridiculous way to do things, even if there's historical precedent.

[mme-n-b.livejournal.com]

Only if you believe people to be an expensive or scarce resource.