Bitchfight in parenting101

[conuly]

As we all know, pacifiers can lead to nipple confusion and interfere with the nursing relationship. They also can contribute to ear infections and cause parents to pay less attention to a child (since the child is always quiet). Somehow, this all blew up. Everywhere.

I wouldn't mind, really, except I post on that community, and, as most people realize, I'm never having kids. Or at least, probably never. I give a little leeway for insanity. And then, there's this one idiot... First saying "if you're not going to breastfeed, why do you have breasts?" And then, when I mention that I, personally, am not having kids, 1. demanding to know why I'm reading the posts there and 2. repeating the asinine question.

*rolls her eyes* Sorry, I wasn't aware that this was a closed community. OH CRAP! It's not!

And of course, she said "breasts aren't for men to play with" Well, neither are hands, but.... At any rate, nobody plays with my breasts, they'd hurt too much. NOT that it's any of her fucking business.

Can you tell I'm pissed? And yet, she's STILL better, in my view, than the one who said she couldn't "think of nothing more unnatural than breastfeeding". Um, excuse me? What about FORMULA feeding? Television? Computers? Condoms? Light bulbs? Books? Clothing? Shoes?

*sighs*

I fear for the world.

Comments

Oy.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

"if you're not going to breastfeed, why do you have breasts?"

Because you totally grew them on purpose. Yes, that's what they're for. No, one's life is not meaningless if one does not put one's boobs to their primary purpose.

"think of nothing more unnatural than breastfeeding"

...An emissary from Opposite Planet, is this?

I don't get some people's obsessive equation of natural = good and good = natural, anyway. Atomic bombs, toasters, antibacterial soap, gay bondage porn, and cheesy religious poetry are all not to be found in "nature", people; please to not be simplistic.

Re: Oy.

[conuly]

Yes, and somebody actually TRIED to get her to come to her senses... "Not ONE thing more unnatural" and she didn't get it. Let's have a list, shall we?

Things found in nature:

Marijuana
Wild almonds (full of cyanide)
Wolves
Breastfeeding
Alcohol
Rain
Hornets

Things not found in nature:

Atomic weapons
Domesticated almonds (edible)
Dogs
Baby formula
Wine
Umbrellas
Bug spray

Re: Oy.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Now look. Fruit juice + yeast = wine. Usually it's still inside the fruit, but hey. Nothing unnatural here.

Dogs? There are dogs in nature, just the breeds are artificially maintained. (I contend that Man is not apart from and separate from Nature and thus "domestication" != "unnatural". And before you say anything about Man doing the synthesizing, remember there's a difference between shaping clay and firing it.)

Of course, my usual reply to the idiots that think natural=good and herbal/organic=harmless is to cite sodium, cyanide and water hemlock--natural, "organic" and herbal, in that order, and none of them anything you want to mess around with. (Water hemlock root has the most fascinating yet repulsive symptoms when ingested.)

Re: Oy.

[conuly]

Wine is DEFINITELY a human invention. There's no yeast in fruits.

Dogs. I don't know. I'll take the opposite view that domestication IS unnatural. Let's compromise. If the species can't survive in the wild, it's unnatural.

Re: Oy.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

I'll accept your compromise.

You see, wild yeasts live on the skins of fruits, which is one reason a fruit which is cracked or split will go bad faster. (You've heard of sourdough? Originally wild yeasts.)

[push-the-limits.livejournal.com]

Has it ever occured to this person that there are some of us that CAN'T breastfeed?

I never produced enough milk to breastfeed my kids.

[conuly]

In fairness, most people who think they can't breastfeed are mistaken. Some aren't, most are. There are a number of ways to increase your supply, including nursing more often. If as many people who think they can't breastfeed really couldn't, humanity would've died out a long time ago.

I know nothing about you, of course. I'm not about to start bitching that you should've tried harder or anything like that. Who knows, you could've been one who couldn't breastfeed. It definitely DOES happen, and anyway, it's not my business.

[conuly]

This post sounds worse than I intended. Cut out most of it, because I don't know how to make it sound right and still say what I mean to say.

[push-the-limits.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I did try. With my first one, he screamed and screamed all night long, and I couldn't figure out why he wouldn't stop...I was so exasperated, that I finally got out the breast pump to see if I could just give him a bottle, but I pumped and pumped, and only a few drops came out.

After being up all day and all night, I finally had to have my mom go to the store at 5am to get some formula. I still tried after that, and still, nothing. To this day I don't know why, but both of my kids were formula babies, and both are very healthy.

[conuly]

If you don't mind my pre-emptive advice, you might try talking to a lactation consultant next time (if there is a next time). It's possible that it was a solvable problem. Quite a few people who can't pump nevertheless have an adaquate milk supply. It happens.

Or you might not bother. I think it's important to breastfeed, and I think it's the best thing for infants, but it's not the end all and be all of parenting. Let's try for a little perspective.

Now, if milk banks were more prevalent, I'd be thrilled. But that's a different issue.

[push-the-limits.livejournal.com]

There won't be a next time, I had a hysterectomy 2 months ago. :)

[conuly]

I don't know if that's "well, that's good" or "oh, too bad", so please just insert the appropriate sentiment. I truly do mean it, whichever it is.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

There's always a Boob Nazi (they call THEMSELVES that) to tell you about an adoptive mother who did SNS and hormones to breastfeed or the HOMOSEXUAL MALE who took hormones and managed to breastfeed.

Whatever your problem is, they can top it. And will tell you so at great length, and harangue you about how lazy you are for not persevering "like they did."

Be as the duck, and let the ravings roll off your back, for it avails nothing to argue with these nitwits.

[conuly]

You don't need to take hormones to induce lactation, even if you're male. Just a LOT of patience and time. And if it's important to you, it's worth it. While I admire those who take the effort, I certainly won't say anything to those who don't, unless they say something stupid like "breastfeeding is gross!!! u shuldnt do that in public!!!! and after a year? EEEEWWWWW!!!!"

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

The really annoying thing about Americans not breastfeeding is foreigners that come over here tend to think it's "the American way" and will formula feed even though they would have breastfed in their home country and oftentimes they can't even afford the formula they're using. Not to mention that they're children oftentimes end up malnourished because the women will chince on the formula thinking it's all the same anyway.

Unless my boobs fall off in a fiery plane crash I'm breastfeeding. Anybody who doesn't like it can suck on my milky boob!

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Are these the same people that say breast pumps are wrong because OMG you need to bond with your child!! If you do not breastfeed you will not bond!

I know I'm not having kids, but hypothetically if something was sucking on them in a nonplatonic manner, I would not feel inclined to bond with them. I would desire them to cease immediately because I am easily squicked out. Breast pumps are not evil.

Breasts are for men to play with. If they weren't, our breasts would "deflate" when we're not nursing and they sure as hell wouldn't be filled with cumbersome fat deposits before our first pregnancy! The "boobs are only for breastfeeding, pervs" attitude annoys me to Hell and back. Yes breastfeeding is natural but I don't see it as the breast's "primary, one true purpose." It's one of the purposes.

[conuly]

Nope. Must be thinking of somebody else. Well. Maybe freaky "cut of your boobs" lady. She's just messed up. People *will* mention that bottle feeding, even with EBM, presents the same increase in ear infections, tooth decay, orthodontics and sinus problems, but for most people, it's a necessary evil.

Breasts are for men to play with.

Actually, in many cultures, they're not. But feet may be, or hips, or legs, or the waist. There's a whole body to sexualize, and different cultures pick different parts.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

I've heard the anti bottle sentiment often enough. Perhaps some women just don't want an infant attached to their breast. I know mine are extremely sensitive (as in I can't touch them without being bothered. Not hot and bothered, but bothered and annoyed) and the less contact with them, the better. It's honestly a risk I'd rather take. Everything has its own set of risks and worrying about every possible little thing will drive a person mad!

Actually, in many cultures, they're not. But feet may be, or hips, or legs, or the waist. There's a whole body to sexualize, and different cultures pick different parts.

That's true-- and I'm not stating that's their purpose, especially today. But evolutionarily speaking, they helped attract mates. Much like things we find biologically attractive without sexualizing in our society (symmetrical faces, etc). So it's silly to say "a breast's only natural reason is to breastfeed!" when "full" breasts became a constant thing about the Homo sapiens sapiens female.

[conuly]

Seriously, though, you're not having kids. Your reasons for not breastfeeding are all well and good, but it's a moot point. I mean, unless I forget, you also think pregnancy is disgusting. You can't breastfeed because you're never getting to that point!

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

That's true, but I can't possibly be the only woman with that issue.

And I like to debate. ::sulks.::

Oy.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

"if you're not going to breastfeed, why do you have breasts?"

Because you totally grew them on purpose. Yes, that's what they're for. No, one's life is not meaningless if one does not put one's boobs to their primary purpose.

"think of nothing more unnatural than breastfeeding"

...An emissary from Opposite Planet, is this?

I don't get some people's obsessive equation of natural = good and good = natural, anyway. Atomic bombs, toasters, antibacterial soap, gay bondage porn, and cheesy religious poetry are all not to be found in "nature", people; please to not be simplistic.

Re: Oy.

[conuly]

Yes, and somebody actually TRIED to get her to come to her senses... "Not ONE thing more unnatural" and she didn't get it. Let's have a list, shall we?

Things found in nature:

Marijuana
Wild almonds (full of cyanide)
Wolves
Breastfeeding
Alcohol
Rain
Hornets

Things not found in nature:

Atomic weapons
Domesticated almonds (edible)
Dogs
Baby formula
Wine
Umbrellas
Bug spray

Re: Oy.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Now look. Fruit juice + yeast = wine. Usually it's still inside the fruit, but hey. Nothing unnatural here.

Dogs? There are dogs in nature, just the breeds are artificially maintained. (I contend that Man is not apart from and separate from Nature and thus "domestication" != "unnatural". And before you say anything about Man doing the synthesizing, remember there's a difference between shaping clay and firing it.)

Of course, my usual reply to the idiots that think natural=good and herbal/organic=harmless is to cite sodium, cyanide and water hemlock--natural, "organic" and herbal, in that order, and none of them anything you want to mess around with. (Water hemlock root has the most fascinating yet repulsive symptoms when ingested.)

Re: Oy.

[conuly]

Wine is DEFINITELY a human invention. There's no yeast in fruits.

Dogs. I don't know. I'll take the opposite view that domestication IS unnatural. Let's compromise. If the species can't survive in the wild, it's unnatural.

Re: Oy.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

I'll accept your compromise.

You see, wild yeasts live on the skins of fruits, which is one reason a fruit which is cracked or split will go bad faster. (You've heard of sourdough? Originally wild yeasts.)

[push-the-limits.livejournal.com]

Has it ever occured to this person that there are some of us that CAN'T breastfeed?

I never produced enough milk to breastfeed my kids.

[conuly]

In fairness, most people who think they can't breastfeed are mistaken. Some aren't, most are. There are a number of ways to increase your supply, including nursing more often. If as many people who think they can't breastfeed really couldn't, humanity would've died out a long time ago.

I know nothing about you, of course. I'm not about to start bitching that you should've tried harder or anything like that. Who knows, you could've been one who couldn't breastfeed. It definitely DOES happen, and anyway, it's not my business.

[conuly]

This post sounds worse than I intended. Cut out most of it, because I don't know how to make it sound right and still say what I mean to say.

[push-the-limits.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I did try. With my first one, he screamed and screamed all night long, and I couldn't figure out why he wouldn't stop...I was so exasperated, that I finally got out the breast pump to see if I could just give him a bottle, but I pumped and pumped, and only a few drops came out.

After being up all day and all night, I finally had to have my mom go to the store at 5am to get some formula. I still tried after that, and still, nothing. To this day I don't know why, but both of my kids were formula babies, and both are very healthy.

[conuly]

If you don't mind my pre-emptive advice, you might try talking to a lactation consultant next time (if there is a next time). It's possible that it was a solvable problem. Quite a few people who can't pump nevertheless have an adaquate milk supply. It happens.

Or you might not bother. I think it's important to breastfeed, and I think it's the best thing for infants, but it's not the end all and be all of parenting. Let's try for a little perspective.

Now, if milk banks were more prevalent, I'd be thrilled. But that's a different issue.

[push-the-limits.livejournal.com]

There won't be a next time, I had a hysterectomy 2 months ago. :)

[conuly]

I don't know if that's "well, that's good" or "oh, too bad", so please just insert the appropriate sentiment. I truly do mean it, whichever it is.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

There's always a Boob Nazi (they call THEMSELVES that) to tell you about an adoptive mother who did SNS and hormones to breastfeed or the HOMOSEXUAL MALE who took hormones and managed to breastfeed.

Whatever your problem is, they can top it. And will tell you so at great length, and harangue you about how lazy you are for not persevering "like they did."

Be as the duck, and let the ravings roll off your back, for it avails nothing to argue with these nitwits.

[conuly]

You don't need to take hormones to induce lactation, even if you're male. Just a LOT of patience and time. And if it's important to you, it's worth it. While I admire those who take the effort, I certainly won't say anything to those who don't, unless they say something stupid like "breastfeeding is gross!!! u shuldnt do that in public!!!! and after a year? EEEEWWWWW!!!!"

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

The really annoying thing about Americans not breastfeeding is foreigners that come over here tend to think it's "the American way" and will formula feed even though they would have breastfed in their home country and oftentimes they can't even afford the formula they're using. Not to mention that they're children oftentimes end up malnourished because the women will chince on the formula thinking it's all the same anyway.

Unless my boobs fall off in a fiery plane crash I'm breastfeeding. Anybody who doesn't like it can suck on my milky boob!

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Are these the same people that say breast pumps are wrong because OMG you need to bond with your child!! If you do not breastfeed you will not bond!

I know I'm not having kids, but hypothetically if something was sucking on them in a nonplatonic manner, I would not feel inclined to bond with them. I would desire them to cease immediately because I am easily squicked out. Breast pumps are not evil.

Breasts are for men to play with. If they weren't, our breasts would "deflate" when we're not nursing and they sure as hell wouldn't be filled with cumbersome fat deposits before our first pregnancy! The "boobs are only for breastfeeding, pervs" attitude annoys me to Hell and back. Yes breastfeeding is natural but I don't see it as the breast's "primary, one true purpose." It's one of the purposes.

[conuly]

Nope. Must be thinking of somebody else. Well. Maybe freaky "cut of your boobs" lady. She's just messed up. People *will* mention that bottle feeding, even with EBM, presents the same increase in ear infections, tooth decay, orthodontics and sinus problems, but for most people, it's a necessary evil.

Breasts are for men to play with.

Actually, in many cultures, they're not. But feet may be, or hips, or legs, or the waist. There's a whole body to sexualize, and different cultures pick different parts.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

I've heard the anti bottle sentiment often enough. Perhaps some women just don't want an infant attached to their breast. I know mine are extremely sensitive (as in I can't touch them without being bothered. Not hot and bothered, but bothered and annoyed) and the less contact with them, the better. It's honestly a risk I'd rather take. Everything has its own set of risks and worrying about every possible little thing will drive a person mad!

Actually, in many cultures, they're not. But feet may be, or hips, or legs, or the waist. There's a whole body to sexualize, and different cultures pick different parts.

That's true-- and I'm not stating that's their purpose, especially today. But evolutionarily speaking, they helped attract mates. Much like things we find biologically attractive without sexualizing in our society (symmetrical faces, etc). So it's silly to say "a breast's only natural reason is to breastfeed!" when "full" breasts became a constant thing about the Homo sapiens sapiens female.

[conuly]

Seriously, though, you're not having kids. Your reasons for not breastfeeding are all well and good, but it's a moot point. I mean, unless I forget, you also think pregnancy is disgusting. You can't breastfeed because you're never getting to that point!

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

That's true, but I can't possibly be the only woman with that issue.

And I like to debate. ::sulks.::