(no subject)

[conuly]

So, a kid was seriously burned on the playsurfacing in NYC.

I am *not* surprised.

Ignore the comments - they're all "Oh, well, nobody should ever go barefoot ever ever ever", and not only is that, I believe, a flawed view but, really, it's entirely beside the point. It's a playground. The mats are there so that when children slip and fall, they don't get hurt. But if the mats burn them, when your kid slips and falls, your kid is gonna get *very* hurt.

Worse yet, most playgrounds go directly from sprinkler to mat to sand to mat with no space in between. Well, it's not reasonable to keep your shoes on in the sprinkler or sandbox - and that one second, you blink, and the kid has gone from one area to another without putting their shoes back on. Whoops.

Now, as I understand it, playgrounds have to be resurfaced regularly. Some playgrounds we go to often (in wealthier neighborhoods) are resurfaced pretty much yearly - maybe ever 18 months or so instead. It shouldn't be that hard to simply get a different type of mat to cover the ground when you go through your required fixing-up.

Comments

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Oh, ouch - talk about poor planning. Of course there are going to be barefoot kids where you have sprinklers and sandboxes - and there are going to be kids falling onto their hands and knees at any playground. I've never seen those surfaces before, though (all the playgrounds I've been to have been grass and sand). Is the thinking that they're more hygienic than sand?

[hopefulnebula]

There's that, plus -- while I'm not sure about this particular playground -- there are plenty of playgrounds that use material from recycled tires as surfacing, either as a mat or as faux gravel. The trouble with that, as the article shows, is that it's generally black and therefore absorbs heat like whoa.

[conuly]

Most playgrounds in NYC, at least the ones I've been to, have that setup.

Some of them have an alternative material that doesn't get so hot, but it's slippery.

[conuly]

Possibly, or that it's less likely to cause diaper/foot irritation than sand, or (and this is the most likely one) that it's safer than sand. I go to some playgrounds with sand at the foot of the slide, that sort of thing, and it gets very packed down, so it's not as bouncy as the blacktop (which works great so long as there's no direct sun on it!) and possibly a greater risk. And kids throw sand and whatnot.

Honestly, this whole problem could be mitigated as well if they'd do something *else* I really think they should do and put some shade in these playgrounds. There's no shade anywhere on top of the structures (which wouldn't help this situation anyway, but that's beside the point), nor on top of the benches or tables, nor anywhere else. And that's a problem in and of itself, especially on hot days. They could really kill two birds with one stone by planning the playgrounds to be (much) more shaded.

God, in California we passed by one day a playground what was big, looked lovely - but no way I was going in there in 100+ weather, there was nothing even *remotely* shaded there! Just a big sunny lot in sunny California.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Ah, that makes sense. Thinking about it, it's probably easier for something sharp to be lurking in sand, beyond my original thought (cat poop). I've just never seen a playground that was surfaced before.

Most of the playgrounds around here are decently shaded, with trees and gazebos and other structures, but we just this year started to see sprinkler parks, which I expect is a godsend for some parents. It gets awfully humid here in the summer, to the point where even an overcast day can make you sweat.

[conuly]

Where are you again?

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Southern Ontario - roughly halfway between Toronto and Buffalo.

[conuly]

So not *that* different, climate-wise, from NYC - maybe somewhat colder winters? (Well... when we *had* real winters.)

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Pretty close, I would assume. Though being on that little pseudo-peninsula bit bordered by Lake Huron, Lake Erie, and Lake Ontario, we sometimes get some pretty wonky weather. Intensified storms, lively winds, more copious precipitation, and of course the fact that they occasionally act as a giant humidifier that cooks our smog and makes us all miserable. All ten of the most humid cities in Canada (of which my hometown ranks #5) are found here on this little patch.

[conuly]

Well, you *are* considered to be a humid continental climate.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

All of the playgrounds I grew up near (in Mississippi and South Carolina) were well shaded, with the exception of the occasional school playground. I'm still rather surprised when I see playgrounds that don't have at least partial shade.

[siderea]

Gracious. And what is it doing to the general atmospheric temperature at the playground to have the ground covered with something which apparently converts sunlight to 167°F heat? Isn't that like making the playground into an oven? Speaking of which:

Egg white coagulates between 144 and 149°F, egg yolk coagulates between 149 and 158°F and whole eggs between 144 and 158°F. Plain whole eggs without added ingredients are pasteurized but not cooked by bringing them to 140°F and maintaining that temperature for 3 and 1/2 minutes. According to the FDA Food Code, eggs for immediate consumption can be cooked to 145°F for 15 seconds.

Just sayin'.

[conuly]

These playgrounds get pretty hot.

I didn't realize they were hot enough to burn - or to fry an egg on (have to try that next time it's a scorching day!) - but they really do get hothothot - which of course is exacerbated by the total lack of shade.

I'm not certain that they usually reach temperatures of 160F, but I know a guy who walks around with a thermometer just for this reason, one that tests surface temperatures (no, I don't know why), and last time we were at a playground in summer at noon (really bad timing there!) it was something like 115 or 120. To be honest, I thought at the time that his device was flawed, that it was hot, but not *that* hot. Now I know....

[velvetchamber.livejournal.com]

Paint them in pastels, all sorts of interesting pictures and patterns.

Still, kids play on asphalt, concrete, sand, gravel, grass, dirt and in mud here without trouble.

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

don't kids have water shoes to wear in the sprinklers? some sandals or something? I don't think I would let my kid on a hothot playground without shoes, even if there was sand and sprinklers....especially after hearing this story. ouch!

[conuly]

Sandals tend to fall off feet fast, and not everybody does have water shoes. How many pairs of shoes can you buy for a kid who's still growing?

At any rate, the point remains that it's not about the shoes. It's about the playground surface, because the surface is to protect children from falls, and by burning them it is failing in its purpose.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Oh, ouch - talk about poor planning. Of course there are going to be barefoot kids where you have sprinklers and sandboxes - and there are going to be kids falling onto their hands and knees at any playground. I've never seen those surfaces before, though (all the playgrounds I've been to have been grass and sand). Is the thinking that they're more hygienic than sand?

[hopefulnebula]

There's that, plus -- while I'm not sure about this particular playground -- there are plenty of playgrounds that use material from recycled tires as surfacing, either as a mat or as faux gravel. The trouble with that, as the article shows, is that it's generally black and therefore absorbs heat like whoa.

[conuly]

Most playgrounds in NYC, at least the ones I've been to, have that setup.

Some of them have an alternative material that doesn't get so hot, but it's slippery.

[conuly]

Possibly, or that it's less likely to cause diaper/foot irritation than sand, or (and this is the most likely one) that it's safer than sand. I go to some playgrounds with sand at the foot of the slide, that sort of thing, and it gets very packed down, so it's not as bouncy as the blacktop (which works great so long as there's no direct sun on it!) and possibly a greater risk. And kids throw sand and whatnot.

Honestly, this whole problem could be mitigated as well if they'd do something *else* I really think they should do and put some shade in these playgrounds. There's no shade anywhere on top of the structures (which wouldn't help this situation anyway, but that's beside the point), nor on top of the benches or tables, nor anywhere else. And that's a problem in and of itself, especially on hot days. They could really kill two birds with one stone by planning the playgrounds to be (much) more shaded.

God, in California we passed by one day a playground what was big, looked lovely - but no way I was going in there in 100+ weather, there was nothing even *remotely* shaded there! Just a big sunny lot in sunny California.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Ah, that makes sense. Thinking about it, it's probably easier for something sharp to be lurking in sand, beyond my original thought (cat poop). I've just never seen a playground that was surfaced before.

Most of the playgrounds around here are decently shaded, with trees and gazebos and other structures, but we just this year started to see sprinkler parks, which I expect is a godsend for some parents. It gets awfully humid here in the summer, to the point where even an overcast day can make you sweat.

[conuly]

Where are you again?

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Southern Ontario - roughly halfway between Toronto and Buffalo.

[conuly]

So not *that* different, climate-wise, from NYC - maybe somewhat colder winters? (Well... when we *had* real winters.)

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Pretty close, I would assume. Though being on that little pseudo-peninsula bit bordered by Lake Huron, Lake Erie, and Lake Ontario, we sometimes get some pretty wonky weather. Intensified storms, lively winds, more copious precipitation, and of course the fact that they occasionally act as a giant humidifier that cooks our smog and makes us all miserable. All ten of the most humid cities in Canada (of which my hometown ranks #5) are found here on this little patch.

[conuly]

Well, you *are* considered to be a humid continental climate.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

All of the playgrounds I grew up near (in Mississippi and South Carolina) were well shaded, with the exception of the occasional school playground. I'm still rather surprised when I see playgrounds that don't have at least partial shade.

[siderea]

Gracious. And what is it doing to the general atmospheric temperature at the playground to have the ground covered with something which apparently converts sunlight to 167°F heat? Isn't that like making the playground into an oven? Speaking of which:

Egg white coagulates between 144 and 149°F, egg yolk coagulates between 149 and 158°F and whole eggs between 144 and 158°F. Plain whole eggs without added ingredients are pasteurized but not cooked by bringing them to 140°F and maintaining that temperature for 3 and 1/2 minutes. According to the FDA Food Code, eggs for immediate consumption can be cooked to 145°F for 15 seconds.

Just sayin'.

[conuly]

These playgrounds get pretty hot.

I didn't realize they were hot enough to burn - or to fry an egg on (have to try that next time it's a scorching day!) - but they really do get hothothot - which of course is exacerbated by the total lack of shade.

I'm not certain that they usually reach temperatures of 160F, but I know a guy who walks around with a thermometer just for this reason, one that tests surface temperatures (no, I don't know why), and last time we were at a playground in summer at noon (really bad timing there!) it was something like 115 or 120. To be honest, I thought at the time that his device was flawed, that it was hot, but not *that* hot. Now I know....

[velvetchamber.livejournal.com]

Paint them in pastels, all sorts of interesting pictures and patterns.

Still, kids play on asphalt, concrete, sand, gravel, grass, dirt and in mud here without trouble.

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

don't kids have water shoes to wear in the sprinklers? some sandals or something? I don't think I would let my kid on a hothot playground without shoes, even if there was sand and sprinklers....especially after hearing this story. ouch!

[conuly]

Sandals tend to fall off feet fast, and not everybody does have water shoes. How many pairs of shoes can you buy for a kid who's still growing?

At any rate, the point remains that it's not about the shoes. It's about the playground surface, because the surface is to protect children from falls, and by burning them it is failing in its purpose.