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conuly
And, long story short, she can be very... uh... direct when speaking to people. Which is to say that she's blunt to a point that I've long since learned most people don't appreciate, but she hasn't.
Which is great for me, because when I can talk to people the way I like to talk and I know they don't get offended, I'm a very happy Connie. And unless I'm severely misjudging her, I'm quite certain she doesn't *really* think that everybody in the world who doesn't do things like her is... well, I'm sure she does think she's wrong, but I think something similar if I'm honest, so that's all right.
But she has felt she doesn't have enough friends. And it came up and I mentioned that maybe she comes on just a tiny bit too strong at times, and she says "I always say no offense!" or "It's my opinion!"
And I do believe she means it when she says it, too.
So I'm about to explain to you all what I eventually worked out for myself out of years of work and effort, and which she hasn't, and which somebody might find useful:
When you say "It's my opinion" or "No offense" you might think you're sounding less judgmental, and you might quite honestly mean "this is only my opinion" or "I do not intend to offend you, I just don't know how to say it nicely", but the vast majority of the world isn't going to interpret it that way, because if they said those things, no matter how they justified it, deep down they wouldn't mean it. So instead of your desired effect (unless of course you were consciously using those phrases to deflect criticism while insulting others, in which case you still could do better), you sound *more* judgmental, *more* critical, and *more* insulting. And people certainly shouldn't use those phrases in that way, but they do, and until you can smack every one of them with a dictionary and make them talk right (which means, of course, the way I do it!), you're better off trying to suck it up and expurgating those phrases from your vocabulary.
Now, there is a polite way to talk about how your choices are right without sounding like how other people do things is totally wrong. I'm sure of it. There must be. But whatever that polite way is, it's not to frame your statements with phrases like "My opinion" and "No offense". People are never going to take that the right way (unless, again, the right way includes them getting upset at you without quite knowing how to return the comment, in which case, bravo!).
Which is great for me, because when I can talk to people the way I like to talk and I know they don't get offended, I'm a very happy Connie. And unless I'm severely misjudging her, I'm quite certain she doesn't *really* think that everybody in the world who doesn't do things like her is... well, I'm sure she does think she's wrong, but I think something similar if I'm honest, so that's all right.
But she has felt she doesn't have enough friends. And it came up and I mentioned that maybe she comes on just a tiny bit too strong at times, and she says "I always say no offense!" or "It's my opinion!"
And I do believe she means it when she says it, too.
So I'm about to explain to you all what I eventually worked out for myself out of years of work and effort, and which she hasn't, and which somebody might find useful:
When you say "It's my opinion" or "No offense" you might think you're sounding less judgmental, and you might quite honestly mean "this is only my opinion" or "I do not intend to offend you, I just don't know how to say it nicely", but the vast majority of the world isn't going to interpret it that way, because if they said those things, no matter how they justified it, deep down they wouldn't mean it. So instead of your desired effect (unless of course you were consciously using those phrases to deflect criticism while insulting others, in which case you still could do better), you sound *more* judgmental, *more* critical, and *more* insulting. And people certainly shouldn't use those phrases in that way, but they do, and until you can smack every one of them with a dictionary and make them talk right (which means, of course, the way I do it!), you're better off trying to suck it up and expurgating those phrases from your vocabulary.
Now, there is a polite way to talk about how your choices are right without sounding like how other people do things is totally wrong. I'm sure of it. There must be. But whatever that polite way is, it's not to frame your statements with phrases like "My opinion" and "No offense". People are never going to take that the right way (unless, again, the right way includes them getting upset at you without quite knowing how to return the comment, in which case, bravo!).
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no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 04:33 am (UTC)I know that "No offense" is offensive, but I didn't realize "That's my opinion" (or similar language) also caused irritation. The thing is, I do mean it when I say that. I recognize that there are many ways to look at an issue, and that my view, no matter how passionately held, is not necessarily the only correct one. I also respect others' right to have opinions different from mine -- even if I believe they're wrong.
But after all these years, I doubt I'm going to get any better at holding back. So I need to learn how to better express the fact that I do understand that my opinions are just that -- my opinions. But what happens is that I get carried away, and only after making an impassioned statement will I realize that I've probably come on too strong. I sometimes say something like, "I'm sorry -- I feel very strongly about this issue and I tend to get a little carried away." Is that better?
What can one do, besides learning how to keep one's feelings in check? After all these years I haven't yet learned how to do that, so it's unlikely that I'm ever going to.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:23 am (UTC)And I don't know if changing your speech habits is the way to go either. It depends on your ultimate goal. If your ultimate goal is to make friends and influence people and eventually rule the world, you'll have to find a way to be offensive only to the right people. If your goal is to be honest and say what you feel and have a smaller group of friends, with the advantage that they know the real you and really understand you... you do something different. And you expect that some people aren't going to understand what you say and may not like you. My mother always says that "as you go through life, some people will like you, and some people won't. And if you change everything about yourself to fit in with the group, as you go through life, some people will like you, and some people won't". And she's right, too.
I don't know know what people think when they hear "it's my opinion". I do know that I get a better response when I just say what I think and don't qualify it with that phrase. I can qualify it with "I don't really know" or "but I am still learning" or even "though I think this is a personal choice and what works for me might not work for you" (which usually means the same thing as "it's my opinion", but people don't respond the same, so I don't think they think it does), but "my opinion" doesn't go over as well as I'd like.
I used to think this was all because most people are inherantly stupid, but now I think that they just don't think like I do. There's probably a good reason that what I understand to be simple isn't to them... and stuff other people think is simple can be hard for me, so I guess it evens out. Maybe.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 02:58 pm (UTC)I actually like this a lot - it conveys the idea that, though this is something *you* feel strongly about, you recognize that the other person might *not* feel very strongly about it (or may be equally passionate in the opposite direction!) It also gives the opportunity to let the subject drop at that point.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:00 am (UTC)It's almost always rude to tell other people how to feel. (Same goes for "Don't be angry!" and "Don't be sad!") Offense is a feeling. Everybody is entitled to have his or her own feelings in response to what they encounter in the world.
If you want other people to know that you don't mean to offend, then that is a plausible thing to say: "I don't mean to offend." But delivered defensively it implies, "You have no right to feel the way you do about what I said/did."
If what you really mean is, "I want to say this and don't know how to do so in a way which will not offend, but I am going to say it anyways and risk offending you, so I request you cut me extra slack"... that's a request, so frame it as such: "Please forgive me if I put this badly...." And deliver it apologetically.
Because in deciding it is more important to say something that might give offense than it is to be concerned with someone else's possible offense, one is sending a clear message one is priorizing one's own interests over those of the person with whom one is speaking. That can be OK, but it is decent to acknowledge one is "putting someone else out" for one's own sake with an apology to the disadvantaged party.
It is exactly the same as when one moves into someone else's personal space, say, to reach something on the table, or when you have to touch someone to slide past them. When you decide to violate someone else's conventional boundaries for one's own ends, one apologizes.
That all explains why saying "No offense" actually often causes even more offense. But it doesn't explain why saying "No offense" doesn't even work in the first place.
The reason it doesn't work is that offense isn't just a matter of whether or not it's intended.
One idiom in English for causing offense is "stepping on someone's toes", which is a great metaphor. Telling someone not to feel offense when you say something potentially offensive is like telling someone, "don't feel pain when I step on your toes, because I don't mean for you to feel pain when I step on your toes!" Whether or hurts when someone steps on your toes has more to do with whether or not you are wearing steel-toed shoes, how heavy they are, how hard they step on them, what shoes they are wearing and so forth, rather than whether or not they mean to cause you pain. Obviously, if they want to cause pain, they'll stomp harder on your toes. But if they accidentally stomp just as hard on your toes as they would have if they meant to hurt you, it will hurt just as much.
How much something said is offensive to a person who hears it isn't just a matter of whether the speaker is trying to offend. Sure, if she's trying to offend, she'll "stomp" harder. But if she accidentally says something which is just as hard a stomp as she would have stomped had she meant to offend, then it will offend just as much.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 03:02 pm (UTC)In particular, I love your advice of using "Please forgive me if I put this badly...." And deliver it apologetically. I think Connie should add it at the top for people to see right away! *cough*hint*cough* ;-)
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 07:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 01:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 04:33 am (UTC)I know that "No offense" is offensive, but I didn't realize "That's my opinion" (or similar language) also caused irritation. The thing is, I do mean it when I say that. I recognize that there are many ways to look at an issue, and that my view, no matter how passionately held, is not necessarily the only correct one. I also respect others' right to have opinions different from mine -- even if I believe they're wrong.
But after all these years, I doubt I'm going to get any better at holding back. So I need to learn how to better express the fact that I do understand that my opinions are just that -- my opinions. But what happens is that I get carried away, and only after making an impassioned statement will I realize that I've probably come on too strong. I sometimes say something like, "I'm sorry -- I feel very strongly about this issue and I tend to get a little carried away." Is that better?
What can one do, besides learning how to keep one's feelings in check? After all these years I haven't yet learned how to do that, so it's unlikely that I'm ever going to.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:23 am (UTC)And I don't know if changing your speech habits is the way to go either. It depends on your ultimate goal. If your ultimate goal is to make friends and influence people and eventually rule the world, you'll have to find a way to be offensive only to the right people. If your goal is to be honest and say what you feel and have a smaller group of friends, with the advantage that they know the real you and really understand you... you do something different. And you expect that some people aren't going to understand what you say and may not like you. My mother always says that "as you go through life, some people will like you, and some people won't. And if you change everything about yourself to fit in with the group, as you go through life, some people will like you, and some people won't". And she's right, too.
I don't know know what people think when they hear "it's my opinion". I do know that I get a better response when I just say what I think and don't qualify it with that phrase. I can qualify it with "I don't really know" or "but I am still learning" or even "though I think this is a personal choice and what works for me might not work for you" (which usually means the same thing as "it's my opinion", but people don't respond the same, so I don't think they think it does), but "my opinion" doesn't go over as well as I'd like.
I used to think this was all because most people are inherantly stupid, but now I think that they just don't think like I do. There's probably a good reason that what I understand to be simple isn't to them... and stuff other people think is simple can be hard for me, so I guess it evens out. Maybe.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 02:58 pm (UTC)I actually like this a lot - it conveys the idea that, though this is something *you* feel strongly about, you recognize that the other person might *not* feel very strongly about it (or may be equally passionate in the opposite direction!) It also gives the opportunity to let the subject drop at that point.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:00 am (UTC)It's almost always rude to tell other people how to feel. (Same goes for "Don't be angry!" and "Don't be sad!") Offense is a feeling. Everybody is entitled to have his or her own feelings in response to what they encounter in the world.
If you want other people to know that you don't mean to offend, then that is a plausible thing to say: "I don't mean to offend." But delivered defensively it implies, "You have no right to feel the way you do about what I said/did."
If what you really mean is, "I want to say this and don't know how to do so in a way which will not offend, but I am going to say it anyways and risk offending you, so I request you cut me extra slack"... that's a request, so frame it as such: "Please forgive me if I put this badly...." And deliver it apologetically.
Because in deciding it is more important to say something that might give offense than it is to be concerned with someone else's possible offense, one is sending a clear message one is priorizing one's own interests over those of the person with whom one is speaking. That can be OK, but it is decent to acknowledge one is "putting someone else out" for one's own sake with an apology to the disadvantaged party.
It is exactly the same as when one moves into someone else's personal space, say, to reach something on the table, or when you have to touch someone to slide past them. When you decide to violate someone else's conventional boundaries for one's own ends, one apologizes.
That all explains why saying "No offense" actually often causes even more offense. But it doesn't explain why saying "No offense" doesn't even work in the first place.
The reason it doesn't work is that offense isn't just a matter of whether or not it's intended.
One idiom in English for causing offense is "stepping on someone's toes", which is a great metaphor. Telling someone not to feel offense when you say something potentially offensive is like telling someone, "don't feel pain when I step on your toes, because I don't mean for you to feel pain when I step on your toes!" Whether or hurts when someone steps on your toes has more to do with whether or not you are wearing steel-toed shoes, how heavy they are, how hard they step on them, what shoes they are wearing and so forth, rather than whether or not they mean to cause you pain. Obviously, if they want to cause pain, they'll stomp harder on your toes. But if they accidentally stomp just as hard on your toes as they would have if they meant to hurt you, it will hurt just as much.
How much something said is offensive to a person who hears it isn't just a matter of whether the speaker is trying to offend. Sure, if she's trying to offend, she'll "stomp" harder. But if she accidentally says something which is just as hard a stomp as she would have stomped had she meant to offend, then it will offend just as much.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 03:02 pm (UTC)In particular, I love your advice of using "Please forgive me if I put this badly...." And deliver it apologetically. I think Connie should add it at the top for people to see right away! *cough*hint*cough* ;-)
no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 07:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 05:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-27 01:24 pm (UTC)