I have a question.

[conuly]

An honest, serious question.

Many times, the subject of corporal punishment pops up in places where you really wouldn't expect it. And on the side of the Spanking is Okay people, there'll inevitably be at least one who recounts a story about how when s/he was a young whippersnapper, a really bad spanking was given. They don't remember why, but they know they never did whatever-it-was again. And, hey, look - I grew up into a responsible, well-adjusted individual! Spanking works!

This is an issue where both sides tend to have trouble breaking down their own arguments, I know. But my question is this - if you can't even remember what you did to get that spanking, how do you know you never did it again? Can you know?

This is the *exact* same story I've seen recounted by dozens (well, tens) of different people. A key feature of the story is that they don't remember what they did. And this is said to prove everything. But how does it prove anything at all?

Edit: I'm not asking about spanking, though I welcome discussion on that matter too. So long as it stays reasonably calm, 'k? I'm asking "Is it possible to know you've never done something after being punished if you don't even remember what you were punished for in the first place?"

Comments

[ladyshrew.livejournal.com]

I got spanked for talking back (among other things). I still talk back. But I'm not ruined either, and I'm a pretty responsible person.

Not that I like corporal punishment, but I don't think it's as horrendous as people make it out to be. But to each his/her own.

Although, there really are some children out there who need *some* form of discipline, AUGH. And, well, frankly, some parents too. :-P

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I was smacked badly once. I don't really remember why. Just that it made me hate my father.

But I love him now, so it obviously didn't work very well in the long run...

[snale.livejournal.com]

I guess my situation might be a little unusual. I think the threat of spanking was an effective tool in getting us to quit doing whatever we were doing (which we probably already knew we shouldn't be doing). But I honestly don't remember being spanked, although I know I must have been a few times. I think my parents were really calculated about spanking. It was very rarely used, and when it was, it was always after they'd had a few minutes to cool off. I found out recently that they made a pact between themselves that they'd never strike us in anger, and I think that worked out pretty well. So I'm not pro-spanking or anti-spanking, really. But I think it can be useful if it's used thoughtfully and in moderation.

[ex-chaos-by-699.livejournal.com]

I assume that if they only got that spanking one time, they figure they must not have done whatever they did to warrant the spanking a second time, or they would have gotten spanked again.

*shrug*

But trying to argue about the general merit of something only from personal, direct experience doesn't seem like a very strong basis for a logical argument.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I clearly remember only one spanking (I think I was 6, certainly no older) and I can assure you, I deserved it.

I stole candy from the gas station. When confronted, I lied about it. On the way to return the candy, I ate it, to destroy the evidence. I lied about that, too. Once back at the gas station, I lied again and claimed that my sister had stolen it. When made to pay back the money for the candy, I grabbed my piggy bank and hid in a tree so they couldn't take my money.

By the time I got to the end of this string of events, I was thinking "If I was Mum and Dad, I'd spank myself." *laugh*

I think I got a couple of light swats here and there, more warning shots than anything else, but on that occasion, oh BOY did I get a spanking.

And no. I sure as hell never did it again. (Except maybe the lying bit, but my parents soon came up with a far more effective remedy for that, and the lying quit pretty quickly, too. A spoonful of vinegar works wonders. o_o)

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Good point.

[sayga.livejournal.com]

i think the problem with spanking is that usually all you remember is the spanking, not the lesson. so no, i think if you can't remember what you were being punished for, you can't know if you ever did it again. the point is to remember the LESSON.

when i was little my brother trashed the kitchen and ran away when he heard my mom coming. she walked in, saw the mess, and kicked me into a brick wall. it was completely unfair. i think spanking or other physical punishment usually IS unfair. if the parent stops and THINKS of an appropriate punishment, it is rarely physical. spanking is the immediate urge or reaction, and often results in regrettable actions. IMO, of course.

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

maybe you can remember the impact the spanking had on you that would make you never want to do whatever caused it in the first place. My dad hit me once, and I sure as hell remember it...I smacked him in the face first, so he did it right back. (boy was that a dumb idea)...i don't remember why we were fighting in the first place, though, all I remember is I did something he didn't like very much, and we got into a screaming match..i threatened to hit him, so i followed through, and so did he. I was probably in high school by then, though...9th grade. though maybe 8th. I don't think I would have done it any earlier or later than that.

I think it depends entirely on the child. I never really cared about "getting in trouble" because my parents (or mom at least) never followed through. She still doesn't, when she says "i want you to clean up your room before you go out" or whatever...if someone believes that their parents will follow through on a punishment, they probably won't misbehave as much. if spanking is all that works, maybe that's what they need to get the message across.

[stejcruetekie.livejournal.com]

I don't really have an answer to your question.

But I just had to say that I'm suprised that, so far, I've not seen any heavy anti-spanking comments. I know anytime it's even been hinted at in my journal some people got pretty pissy.

I was certainly spanked as a kid. I even remember what for a few times! But I definitely remember the last time I was slapped - I hadn't been spanked or slapped in years - I was in my tweens at least, and severely pushed the envelope with my mom. I know it made a difference and I never pushed that hard again.

And for the record, I'm "pro-spanking". (It has to be done right, of course, but on principle I support it).

[mayhemwench.livejournal.com]

I remember one time my mom broke a hairbrush on my butt, and I laughed and laughed, which I'm sure was not the response she was looking for.

I think I turned out pretty okay. On the other hand, I know that I got spanked for a lot of things I still do - for example, lying. I spent almost my entire school career lying (told my mom every day that my homework was done when I was really saving it for the morning bus ride).

On the other hand, I bit my sister once for stealing one of my pony toys (and I was old enough to know better). Mom took away my My Little Ponies for two weeks and forbid me to watch the TV show - no other shows, just MLP, which was my favorite one. I never bit anyone again.

She also used to flick my sisters and I on the mouth if we chewed with our mouths open/talked with food and I never ever do the first, and only do the second behind a napkin.

So does corporal punishment work? In cases where the punishment fits the crime, probably. Random spankings? I doubt it, unless it's reserved only for the worst things and not given out every time the rules are broken. Desensitization ruins any punishment.

And my mom was a totally awesome mom, aside from the mouth-flicking thing, so it helped that I wanted to listen to her, too.

[deceptica]

Heh, I also remember being spanked by my Dad once. Not what for, only that it didn't hurt that much but was terribly humiliating.

[packbat.livejournal.com]

Just as another datum: I was never spanked. When my parents wanted to punish me or my siblings, they did it by words or by loss of privileges. I think it worked alright.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

One time my son got a hold of a box of matches and basically tried to set his and his sister's room on fire. He was spanked quite thoroughly for that one, stood in the corner, yelled at, and explained why when he was forgiven.

He's never lit a fire again, and it's been about ten years. I don't know if he remembers why he got that spanking. I do know that he's avoided behavior that leads up to lighting fires: he STILL brings me matches and lighters so I can put them somewhere safe, and he's thirteen (it doesn't happen frequently, but it does happen.)

So I'd guess that even though he doesn't repeat the behavior, he remembers why he's supposed to avoid doing things that could lead to that behavior. I don't honestly know.

[iustus-lacuna.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone my name is Abdul Demetrius Felder most people just call me Deme tho’. (After 9/11 lol) I’m Ana’s and Eva’s father which understandably most of you may not know. I’m also Conuly’s brother-in-law (which I assume would be obvious) but what very few people do know is that I’m in fact the super delicious byproduct of aunt Jemima and that Quaker Oats guy’s forbidden cross consumer love affair as well, and NOW ON TO THE BITCHING!
For better or for worse I remember every time I was “whipped” by my mother partly because the majority of the times I was “whipped” I was just that, tied up, gagged and beaten with a belt, and partly because I received whippings well into my preteens.
Did being chastised in this manner prevent me from doing the very things that warranted being whipped? Well the fairly frequent number of whippings I received would on the surface prove quite the contrary (most being administered for the same set of reoccurring infractions). I lived with my grandmother for most of my adolescence (for economic and social reasons which aren’t necessary to explain in this post) and my mother would come to visit me every day after school, often greeted after a long day of work with an even longer list of the things I did wrong that day. So I was Chastised, some may say for good reason, I was a latchkey child at a very early age (10 years old) that had a tendency to play with fire, and on several occasions my grandmother came home to a smoke filled house after I had set the kitchen garbage can on fire. The last time I ever played with fire my mother chastised me by holding my hand over an open flame for a few seconds. I never played with fire after that. So did it work? Yes is the very, very black and white answer. Did I grow up to be well adjusted adult? Well I’ll let Conuly be the judge of that after she dries off from me soaking her with my new badass water gun. In closing tho’ I will say this - every time you strike anyone you care for, it does create a large number of conflicting feelings, usually in both parties. Is it justified, does it really solve the problem, or just seems to? Is hitting the best way to get your point across or just the easiest? This isn’t an answer really, just something I feel everyone should think about before they chastise their child, sometimes a monuments pause can make up for a lifetime of regret.

P.S. I do feel the need to say that I have indeed physically disciplined Ana but I have never whipped or beat my child.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

Interestingly enough, my own version of that story? I was spanked and even at the time I never had any clue why. Seeing as it just made me think that my butt was going to get swatted at random for no apparent reason (I once spent the entire afternoon keeping my butt against walls or furniture because I couldn't figure out when or why it was going to get swatted next), my parents gave up on spanking as a useful punishment for pragmatic reasons as much as anything.

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

I'll just say I was spanked for things I definitely think are not legitimate reasons for spanking (wetting my bed or getting dirty underwear). All it made me do was try to hide it from my mom and fix things before she found out, but if she found out before I got a chance she got even madder.
Ugh...

[ladyshrew.livejournal.com]

I got spanked for talking back (among other things). I still talk back. But I'm not ruined either, and I'm a pretty responsible person.

Not that I like corporal punishment, but I don't think it's as horrendous as people make it out to be. But to each his/her own.

Although, there really are some children out there who need *some* form of discipline, AUGH. And, well, frankly, some parents too. :-P

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I was smacked badly once. I don't really remember why. Just that it made me hate my father.

But I love him now, so it obviously didn't work very well in the long run...

[snale.livejournal.com]

I guess my situation might be a little unusual. I think the threat of spanking was an effective tool in getting us to quit doing whatever we were doing (which we probably already knew we shouldn't be doing). But I honestly don't remember being spanked, although I know I must have been a few times. I think my parents were really calculated about spanking. It was very rarely used, and when it was, it was always after they'd had a few minutes to cool off. I found out recently that they made a pact between themselves that they'd never strike us in anger, and I think that worked out pretty well. So I'm not pro-spanking or anti-spanking, really. But I think it can be useful if it's used thoughtfully and in moderation.

[ex-chaos-by-699.livejournal.com]

I assume that if they only got that spanking one time, they figure they must not have done whatever they did to warrant the spanking a second time, or they would have gotten spanked again.

*shrug*

But trying to argue about the general merit of something only from personal, direct experience doesn't seem like a very strong basis for a logical argument.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I clearly remember only one spanking (I think I was 6, certainly no older) and I can assure you, I deserved it.

I stole candy from the gas station. When confronted, I lied about it. On the way to return the candy, I ate it, to destroy the evidence. I lied about that, too. Once back at the gas station, I lied again and claimed that my sister had stolen it. When made to pay back the money for the candy, I grabbed my piggy bank and hid in a tree so they couldn't take my money.

By the time I got to the end of this string of events, I was thinking "If I was Mum and Dad, I'd spank myself." *laugh*

I think I got a couple of light swats here and there, more warning shots than anything else, but on that occasion, oh BOY did I get a spanking.

And no. I sure as hell never did it again. (Except maybe the lying bit, but my parents soon came up with a far more effective remedy for that, and the lying quit pretty quickly, too. A spoonful of vinegar works wonders. o_o)

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Good point.

[sayga.livejournal.com]

i think the problem with spanking is that usually all you remember is the spanking, not the lesson. so no, i think if you can't remember what you were being punished for, you can't know if you ever did it again. the point is to remember the LESSON.

when i was little my brother trashed the kitchen and ran away when he heard my mom coming. she walked in, saw the mess, and kicked me into a brick wall. it was completely unfair. i think spanking or other physical punishment usually IS unfair. if the parent stops and THINKS of an appropriate punishment, it is rarely physical. spanking is the immediate urge or reaction, and often results in regrettable actions. IMO, of course.

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

maybe you can remember the impact the spanking had on you that would make you never want to do whatever caused it in the first place. My dad hit me once, and I sure as hell remember it...I smacked him in the face first, so he did it right back. (boy was that a dumb idea)...i don't remember why we were fighting in the first place, though, all I remember is I did something he didn't like very much, and we got into a screaming match..i threatened to hit him, so i followed through, and so did he. I was probably in high school by then, though...9th grade. though maybe 8th. I don't think I would have done it any earlier or later than that.

I think it depends entirely on the child. I never really cared about "getting in trouble" because my parents (or mom at least) never followed through. She still doesn't, when she says "i want you to clean up your room before you go out" or whatever...if someone believes that their parents will follow through on a punishment, they probably won't misbehave as much. if spanking is all that works, maybe that's what they need to get the message across.

[stejcruetekie.livejournal.com]

I don't really have an answer to your question.

But I just had to say that I'm suprised that, so far, I've not seen any heavy anti-spanking comments. I know anytime it's even been hinted at in my journal some people got pretty pissy.

I was certainly spanked as a kid. I even remember what for a few times! But I definitely remember the last time I was slapped - I hadn't been spanked or slapped in years - I was in my tweens at least, and severely pushed the envelope with my mom. I know it made a difference and I never pushed that hard again.

And for the record, I'm "pro-spanking". (It has to be done right, of course, but on principle I support it).

[mayhemwench.livejournal.com]

I remember one time my mom broke a hairbrush on my butt, and I laughed and laughed, which I'm sure was not the response she was looking for.

I think I turned out pretty okay. On the other hand, I know that I got spanked for a lot of things I still do - for example, lying. I spent almost my entire school career lying (told my mom every day that my homework was done when I was really saving it for the morning bus ride).

On the other hand, I bit my sister once for stealing one of my pony toys (and I was old enough to know better). Mom took away my My Little Ponies for two weeks and forbid me to watch the TV show - no other shows, just MLP, which was my favorite one. I never bit anyone again.

She also used to flick my sisters and I on the mouth if we chewed with our mouths open/talked with food and I never ever do the first, and only do the second behind a napkin.

So does corporal punishment work? In cases where the punishment fits the crime, probably. Random spankings? I doubt it, unless it's reserved only for the worst things and not given out every time the rules are broken. Desensitization ruins any punishment.

And my mom was a totally awesome mom, aside from the mouth-flicking thing, so it helped that I wanted to listen to her, too.

[deceptica]

Heh, I also remember being spanked by my Dad once. Not what for, only that it didn't hurt that much but was terribly humiliating.

[packbat.livejournal.com]

Just as another datum: I was never spanked. When my parents wanted to punish me or my siblings, they did it by words or by loss of privileges. I think it worked alright.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

One time my son got a hold of a box of matches and basically tried to set his and his sister's room on fire. He was spanked quite thoroughly for that one, stood in the corner, yelled at, and explained why when he was forgiven.

He's never lit a fire again, and it's been about ten years. I don't know if he remembers why he got that spanking. I do know that he's avoided behavior that leads up to lighting fires: he STILL brings me matches and lighters so I can put them somewhere safe, and he's thirteen (it doesn't happen frequently, but it does happen.)

So I'd guess that even though he doesn't repeat the behavior, he remembers why he's supposed to avoid doing things that could lead to that behavior. I don't honestly know.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi everyone my name is Abdul Demetrius Felder most people just call me Deme tho’. (After 9/11 lol) I’m Ana’s and Eva’s father which understandably most of you may not know. I’m also Conuly’s brother-in-law (which I assume would be obvious) but what very few people do know is that I’m in fact the super delicious byproduct of aunt Jemima and that Quaker Oats guy’s forbidden cross consumer love affair as well, and NOW ON TO THE BITCHING!
For better or for worse I remember every time I was “whipped” by my mother partly because the majority of the times I was “whipped” I was just that, tied up, gagged and beaten with a belt, and partly because I received whippings well into my preteens.
Did being chastised in this manner prevent me from doing the very things that warranted being whipped? Well the fairly frequent number of whippings I received would on the surface prove quite the contrary (most being administered for the same set of reoccurring infractions). I lived with my grandmother for most of my adolescence (for economic and social reasons which aren’t necessary to explain in this post) and my mother would come to visit me every day after school, often greeted after a long day of work with an even longer list of the things I did wrong that day. So I was Chastised, some may say for good reason, I was a latchkey child at a very early age (10 years old) that had a tendency to play with fire, and on several occasions my grandmother came home to a smoke filled house after I had set the kitchen garbage can on fire. The last time I ever played with fire my mother chastised me by holding my hand over an open flame for a few seconds. I never played with fire after that. So did it work? Yes is the very, very black and white answer. Did I grow up to be well adjusted adult? Well I’ll let Conuly be the judge of that after she dries off from me soaking her with my new badass water gun. In closing tho’ I will say this - every time you strike anyone you care for, it does create a large number of conflicting feelings, usually in both parties. Is it justified, does it really solve the problem, or just seems to? Is hitting the best way to get your point across or just the easiest? This isn’t an answer really, just something I feel everyone should think about before they chastise their child, sometimes a monuments pause can make up for a lifetime of regret.

P.S. I do feel the need to say that I have indeed physically disciplined Ana but I have never whipped or beat my child.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

Interestingly enough, my own version of that story? I was spanked and even at the time I never had any clue why. Seeing as it just made me think that my butt was going to get swatted at random for no apparent reason (I once spent the entire afternoon keeping my butt against walls or furniture because I couldn't figure out when or why it was going to get swatted next), my parents gave up on spanking as a useful punishment for pragmatic reasons as much as anything.

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

I'll just say I was spanked for things I definitely think are not legitimate reasons for spanking (wetting my bed or getting dirty underwear). All it made me do was try to hide it from my mom and fix things before she found out, but if she found out before I got a chance she got even madder.
Ugh...