conuly

Judge Rotenberg...why do places like that have to exist? Why can't your government close it down?

Can I presume the three/four year old was probably not typical? Perhaps she had psychosocial dwarfism for instance?

Adelaide

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conuly

You're asking me questions I don't know the answers to.

Can I presume the three/four year old was probably not typical?

There were two of them. And they seemed normal (not that that always means much). Other than the obsessiveness with which their adults kept praising them, that is. But other than that, the adults treated them... normally.

Honestly, this sort of insane praising of kids happens all the time, and it everlastingly pisses me off. Children. Aren't. Dogs.

From:

I do understand.

I don't really like the praising either. I wouldn't even praise a dog too much if I had it.

Now encouragement is good and true.

Children do learn a lot from the way adults treat them, don't they?

Maybe the adults want to show how much they value their children ... more like in public or something.

But eating is natural.

Adelaide

From:

Actually, I don't have a moral problem with unpleasant medical procedures being forced on children. I would force my child to be vaccinated, even though it is painful and traumatic.

I have a problem with this particular choice of shocking children because it's bad medicine and bad parenting and bad teaching. It's not very effective at getting good results (whereby good I mean actual education going on) and it's just laziness. Positive reinforcement has been show to work much better than punishment. Set up a token economy if you must, but don't go around physically hurting kids. We've shown that that doesn't work well and can be rather harmful.

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stejcruetekie.livejournal.com

Praising a kid for eating. Eating snacks, of all things. Now I've seen everything.

Well hey, it's never too early to teach them anti-anorexia!

Cause there are plenty of people out there that we're happy if they eat *anything*...

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Except that turning eating into a big deal helps to encourage anorexia later :/ Just what you need, strong emotional connections to eating. I prefer it to just be eating.

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failstoexist.livejournal.com

wow. OK, shock therapy? useful in some cases of severe depression. My cousin, for example...he's not *happy* now, but he's not suicidal all the time. Probably the best thing to happen to him in the last few years. However, it's fairly scary stuff, mostly because we've got no idea how or why it works, it just *does*. That, to me, is freaky. and something that shouldn't be messed with unless completely necessary.

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You're thinking of a different kind of shock. The shock used to treat severe, non drug-responsive depression is designed to get well and truly feaky with neurotransmitter levels, though I don't remember just how. The shock described here, I would consider inhumane to use on an ill-behaved dog, let alone a child.

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I think both shocks here are inhumane.

But the second one is more inhumane.

The child didn't ask for this. Nor did the dog. This is on innocent people who did nothing wrong, who are acting out the dictates of their nature.

And a depressed person is usually acting out of learnt behaviour patterns, in most cases, even if it does become chemical in the end.

I think I see a distinction between nature and (lack of or dysfunctional) nurture.

Adelaide
who though she has had depression in the past would describe hers as more situational (gets worse under STRESS) than chemical

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The depression one isn't exactly a shock, though it is electrical in nature. The brain basically functions via electricity. They don't really zap the brain, as I recall, they give it some kind of electrical stimulation that spikes all of the neurotransmitters. Though it's been a while since intro psych...

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Thanks for the clarification.

So the brain does run on electricity.

It's like food, isn't it? You're only giving it some of what's natural. But you can over shock, like over-vitamin or over-mineral.

Adelaide

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lizziey.livejournal.com

Connie? You have seen Seth praised for eating *anything*. You have seen him eat nothing. For days. ANd what did I do the second he finally ate something? Damn right I praised him.

But then, you know Seth isn't (wasn't? he eats fine now...) normal when this was going on. :-\

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It's different when it's one's own children or one's own family, though.

Adelaide

From:

Judge Rotenberg...why do places like that have to exist? Why can't your government close it down?

Can I presume the three/four year old was probably not typical? Perhaps she had psychosocial dwarfism for instance?

Adelaide

From:

conuly

You're asking me questions I don't know the answers to.

Can I presume the three/four year old was probably not typical?

There were two of them. And they seemed normal (not that that always means much). Other than the obsessiveness with which their adults kept praising them, that is. But other than that, the adults treated them... normally.

Honestly, this sort of insane praising of kids happens all the time, and it everlastingly pisses me off. Children. Aren't. Dogs.

From:

I do understand.

I don't really like the praising either. I wouldn't even praise a dog too much if I had it.

Now encouragement is good and true.

Children do learn a lot from the way adults treat them, don't they?

Maybe the adults want to show how much they value their children ... more like in public or something.

But eating is natural.

Adelaide

From:

Actually, I don't have a moral problem with unpleasant medical procedures being forced on children. I would force my child to be vaccinated, even though it is painful and traumatic.

I have a problem with this particular choice of shocking children because it's bad medicine and bad parenting and bad teaching. It's not very effective at getting good results (whereby good I mean actual education going on) and it's just laziness. Positive reinforcement has been show to work much better than punishment. Set up a token economy if you must, but don't go around physically hurting kids. We've shown that that doesn't work well and can be rather harmful.

From:

stejcruetekie.livejournal.com

Praising a kid for eating. Eating snacks, of all things. Now I've seen everything.

Well hey, it's never too early to teach them anti-anorexia!

Cause there are plenty of people out there that we're happy if they eat *anything*...

From:

Except that turning eating into a big deal helps to encourage anorexia later :/ Just what you need, strong emotional connections to eating. I prefer it to just be eating.

From:

failstoexist.livejournal.com

wow. OK, shock therapy? useful in some cases of severe depression. My cousin, for example...he's not *happy* now, but he's not suicidal all the time. Probably the best thing to happen to him in the last few years. However, it's fairly scary stuff, mostly because we've got no idea how or why it works, it just *does*. That, to me, is freaky. and something that shouldn't be messed with unless completely necessary.

From:

You're thinking of a different kind of shock. The shock used to treat severe, non drug-responsive depression is designed to get well and truly feaky with neurotransmitter levels, though I don't remember just how. The shock described here, I would consider inhumane to use on an ill-behaved dog, let alone a child.

From:

I think both shocks here are inhumane.

But the second one is more inhumane.

The child didn't ask for this. Nor did the dog. This is on innocent people who did nothing wrong, who are acting out the dictates of their nature.

And a depressed person is usually acting out of learnt behaviour patterns, in most cases, even if it does become chemical in the end.

I think I see a distinction between nature and (lack of or dysfunctional) nurture.

Adelaide
who though she has had depression in the past would describe hers as more situational (gets worse under STRESS) than chemical

From:

The depression one isn't exactly a shock, though it is electrical in nature. The brain basically functions via electricity. They don't really zap the brain, as I recall, they give it some kind of electrical stimulation that spikes all of the neurotransmitters. Though it's been a while since intro psych...

From:

Thanks for the clarification.

So the brain does run on electricity.

It's like food, isn't it? You're only giving it some of what's natural. But you can over shock, like over-vitamin or over-mineral.

Adelaide

From:

lizziey.livejournal.com

Connie? You have seen Seth praised for eating *anything*. You have seen him eat nothing. For days. ANd what did I do the second he finally ate something? Damn right I praised him.

But then, you know Seth isn't (wasn't? he eats fine now...) normal when this was going on. :-\

From: