*sighs*

[conuly]

I occasionally browse a certain community, and some things that go there do irk me....

Okay, seriously. Why is this supposed to be funny? Or fair? Or anything?

1. A kid in a stroller, not hurting anyone, falling over straight backwards (okay, maybe you laugh every time ANYONE falls over, but that's still not right)

2. A woman running out to kick a kid up into the air when said kid wasn't doing anything to anybody

?

And there's a few other comments... (all comments may be exaggerated for effect)

"You know, when you hear smacking behind you, you automatically assume it's teenagers kissing, right? So you go to look, right? And EEEEWWWWWWWW, it's a BABY NURSING! Ick!"

How about you try something new. DON'T TURN AROUND. If this is what it takes to teach you some manners, I think you're well-served by the experience.

And two which, while not upsetting, do merit comment in my rant....

Even the aisle of baby food at the grocery store makes me cringe.

Okay, you're entitled to feel that way. But, frankly, that's a bit much. Lots of people don't like kids, they don't feel sick looking at jars of puree. I'm not saying this to be mean, but I can actually see that impairing your life.

My husband just told me that he is leaving; he "wants kids and to live in a small town."

Yes, I will be a divorcee because I won't breed. He knew this when we started dating.

Yes, that sucks. We all know it sucks. But... this is important. You should not decide to have kids just to please him, if he changed his mind on the kids issue (or stupidly married you thinking you'd change) he should have a chance to have kids, if it's so important to him now.

Let's look at some of the replies (biased sample):

That's horrible for him to do to you, especially after you'd made it clear that you didn't want kids!

Yeah, it's horrible for him to do to you. Or, we could say it's horrible for you to do to him. Is this worse than him lying about his feelings? Or than him nagging you the rest of your life to have kids? Or than him pressuring you into a bad decision? He's getting the divorce because it's clear to him that you don't want kids. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, this shouldn't happen. But it does. Some people do change their minds. Pity when it's about something important enough to ruin a good relationship, but it can't be helped.

What an asshole!

For wanting kids, and deciding not to stay in a relationship where this desire would hurt everyone? Maybe he really IS a jerk, but we don't know that from this person's comment.

*hugs* Oh, gods... I'm so sorry this happened to you. What he did was nigh unto unforgivable. It's men like him that should be castrated.

Because changing your mind is BAD. Like many people in that community have said "if he's not childfree, he's not for me". Well, I'm guessing that if you really want kids, and your partner doesn't, they're no longer the right person for you. Again, it sucks, and again, it's bad that this has to happen to you, but people do change their minds. That's not a crime, nor even a thing we can help.

Agreed. I think it would be the most fantastic irony if he discovered he were sterile. Or if he suffered from extreme erectile dysfunction.

Spiteful, much? Either the guy was an idiot, hoping to change her, or he changed. But he should lie about who he is to please her? Why should it be that way instead of her lying about who she is? Either way, one or both of them is gonna end up unhappy that way. The answer, of course, is that neither should lie, but since this makes a relationship difficult, at best, they shouldn't be married anymore. Yeah, that makes us unhappy, and yeah, it's hard, and no, I don't wish that on anyone... but there's nothing you can do. It's better, in the long run, than the alternatives

And there's the news from me. Did I mention that some people irk me?

Comments

[davidkevin.livejournal.com]

This whole "childfree" communities thing is new to me -- I never heard of such until discovering them on LJ. I note, though, that others outside of here know about them, as they were satirized last Sunday night on The Simpsons.

People who hate children are more alien to me than anything I've ever encountered in science fiction, written or filmed. Do they think they were never children themselves? Do they think they sprang into being as fully-formed adults, like Pallas Athene from the brow of Zeus?

Fie on them and their goofy attitudes.

[conuly]

It was only on LJ? Sheltered upbringing!

To my mind, if you want, you can hate kids. You may have good reasons for it, like a sensitivity to high tones, you may not, as in the case of prejudice, but I really don't care, it's not my business. Shit, there's some kids I hate, and I hated most kids for about as long as I was one... bad memories there. However, if you have a community which says "we're not all childhaters", but you make a big deal out of various comments which are, um, iffy at best on the childhating issue... there's something screwy there.

[davidkevin.livejournal.com]

> It was only on LJ? Sheltered upbringing!


Oh, it wasn't that I've never met child-haters. As an adult I've met some who were out, just as I suspect some of the nuns who abused me and my classmates in primary school were in the closet.

What gets me is that now they're organized.

It's like in the Three Stooges comedy in which somebody calls them morons and Moe replies, "Yes! And we're organized!", proudly showing his union button, evidence of his membership in the Amalgamated Morons, Dimwits, and Fools, Local 6-7/8.

[nightsea.livejournal.com]

I think it's really the spiteful comments that get to me the most. People change. What's that old saying.. 'change is the only constant.' In a replationship, we all hope that any change that occurs is of the type that's compatible with us, but sometimes it doesn't happen that way. That's no reason to wish horrible things on that other person just because they may think differently from you.

As for the childless issue, I don't really like children much myself. I don't -hate- them by any means, but I'm just not ready to have any of my own. My fiance feels the same way, but we also accept that some time in our lives we may feel differently about having children. Locking yourself into an inflexible stance in any relationship is a bad thing. Granted, the issue of having a child is perhaps the most serious decision a couple can make, and compromise on the issue is difficult, it doesn't necessarily have to tear a couple apart.

[goddess588.livejournal.com]

I just can't go there anymore.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

Gawd. You know, I can see not really liking kids. I get that part. But why are so many (not all) self-described "childfree" people misanthropic assholes?

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Actually, the gif of the toddler being kicked (I think I've seen it before) is funny, because it's so damned unreal. It made me laugh... and I'm even the sort that won't laugh at some things on the "funniest video" shows because people got hurt, for real. But the toddler didn't get hurt, and it looked like a little football. It's like laughing when an anvil falls on Wil E. Coyote, they're both just as fake. ::shrug.:: If we're thinking of the same thing.

And re: the woman who's husband is leaving her. That's so sad. =/ I mean, it's best that he leaves but it's so sad... my physics teacher, her boyfriend of five years (she was converting to Judaism and everything for this man) dumped her out of the blue because he suddenly decided he didn't want to date a woman who was 4'10. For some reason these seem parallel. He's the wrong guy and it's good he's gone, but it's still sad. People just would naturally say "he's an asshole" and they may mean it, but it may also be a way to cheer her up. When someone hurts you, normally you'll (well, most people) will come up with a reasoning to make themselves feel better. Sometimes calling him an asshole and hoping he goes sterile is what does it. I mean, I took a small amount of glee when one of the guys that made my life a living hell didn't get into the dream college he bragged about....

Sorry, I just like to play Devil's advocate. I haven't read childfree in forever, and I kind of think I'm a better person for it. Much less bitterness and bile in my life. I'm sure that's the community you took it from?

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Forgot to add: yeah, they were a bit too enthusiastic in condemning this stranger. Which is what really gave which of the childfree communities it was. I don't think he was an asshole (unless he went into the marriage thinking she would change-- THEN he was someone I'd like to beat, but that's because I really hate people that expect people to change for them) I was just mentioning one of the reasons they may have labelled him as such.

[conuly]

(unless he went into the marriage thinking she would change-- THEN he was someone I'd like to beat, but that's because I really hate people that expect people to change for them)

And if that's the case, maybe she did the same for him. I can't imagine that he thought she'd change and never ONCE said "you know, I really want kids".

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

It's possible, and I was working under the belief that he was one of those guys that said "what if..." she said "no" and he said "okay." In my experience, guys tend to be more ambivalent towards kids than she is. If he mentioned wanting kids (I guessed he'd never mentioned kids because it sounded out of the blue) then I wouldn't want to beat him. I just hate when guys believe the mother-in-law when she says "oh the girl will settle down. They all do."

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

The "she" meaning women in general. I can't think straight today. Mind screwing my head on for me?

[conuly]

And maybe he is an asshole. I really don't know. I do know that if she was the one leaving HIM because he kept pressuring HER, they'd react differently. Or, at least, I suspect that.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

No they wouldn't react differently at all.

"He was an asshole" but they'd tack on "you did the right thing!" *sarcasm* it's a bit of a no win situation with that.

[zarriq.livejournal.com]

I think that childfree's problems aren't very different than that of any other rant community about any subject, though CF boards do tend to get the brunt of "why are they so damn angry?" I've tried reading through several rant pages but just gave up, since for every reasonable complaint there are a dozen ridiculous ones.

[conuly]

Their rants tend more on the unreasonable side, though... Like customers_suck has said some things where I'm like "what? you're overreacting", but...

And then the people at childfree complain that they're misrepresented. Which is why it's not the community of choice for me.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm not a childhater, but I REALLY don't like being around the majority of them. Some of the stuff people post in there is genuinely funny, and some of it is genuinely supportive, but yeah there ARE lots of times when someone posts something way-out-there. I skim over those, cringe at them as I would react to a baby-goods aisle (yep I'm one of THOSE weirdos ;-) baby powder gives me headaches too), and skip over it in favor of better entries in my friends list.

Although I dno't know the details of that lady's husband breaking it off with her to have kids, I know I'd be devastated if Eric were to suddenly really want kids. Something like that would indeed affect our marriage. He originally wanted children basically because it's what was expected from him, but when I informed him pre-marriage that I didn't want them, he warmed up to that idea REALLY fast. *haha* We've got enough nieces and nephews and friends' kids if we ever wanted to play with any...and remind us why we don't want our own in one fell swoop.

I don't wish harm upon kids, but a reflex I acquired in childhood to attack anything that constantly annoys me would predispose me to unintentional physical abuse. It would also be neglectful to avoid the child if I were to have one.

If the unthinkable comes around and I happened to become pregnant, I would either rally for a way to do an embryo transfer to someone who could carry one with their bloodtype and other factors or simply put the infant up for adoption ASAP.

[conuly]

Hey, I'm not calling people weirdos for not liking the babyfood aisle, I just think that's going a bit... well... unhealthy.

And yes, I'm not mad or critical of her for being upset, I think if I were in that situation, I'd be either pissed or sobbing. But since we don't know the circumstances, it seems unfair to just label the guy as, well, anything other than somebody who wants to be a father. Of course, she and anyone else who knows the couple can label him and I'll keep my mouth shut.

*hugs* I hope you don't become pregnant, that seems as though it would be difficult for you. But there's no special need to hope that, so no worries.


I don't wish harm upon kids, but a reflex I acquired in childhood to attack anything that constantly annoys me would predispose me to unintentional physical abuse. It would also be neglectful to avoid the child if I were to have one.

Remind me never to annoy you... That's part of my notwantingkids, I've been way too violent towards family members already. I don't care that I *am* getting better, I really don't want to put a baby at risk, or a kid.

Oh, your scarf is done, I'm just putzing about sending it. Me lazy.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

*LOL* That's OK. I'll be looking forward to it. :-)

Yeah, you won't annoy me, I don't think. It has to be prolonged, and when someone older than a child does it, they're either mentally ill or doing it on purpose. Thankfully with internet, if someone WERE to get continually on my nerves, I could tell them off and then cut off all contact. I doubt you'll hit that nerve on me either.

[davidkevin.livejournal.com]

This whole "childfree" communities thing is new to me -- I never heard of such until discovering them on LJ. I note, though, that others outside of here know about them, as they were satirized last Sunday night on The Simpsons.

People who hate children are more alien to me than anything I've ever encountered in science fiction, written or filmed. Do they think they were never children themselves? Do they think they sprang into being as fully-formed adults, like Pallas Athene from the brow of Zeus?

Fie on them and their goofy attitudes.

[conuly]

It was only on LJ? Sheltered upbringing!

To my mind, if you want, you can hate kids. You may have good reasons for it, like a sensitivity to high tones, you may not, as in the case of prejudice, but I really don't care, it's not my business. Shit, there's some kids I hate, and I hated most kids for about as long as I was one... bad memories there. However, if you have a community which says "we're not all childhaters", but you make a big deal out of various comments which are, um, iffy at best on the childhating issue... there's something screwy there.

[davidkevin.livejournal.com]

> It was only on LJ? Sheltered upbringing!


Oh, it wasn't that I've never met child-haters. As an adult I've met some who were out, just as I suspect some of the nuns who abused me and my classmates in primary school were in the closet.

What gets me is that now they're organized.

It's like in the Three Stooges comedy in which somebody calls them morons and Moe replies, "Yes! And we're organized!", proudly showing his union button, evidence of his membership in the Amalgamated Morons, Dimwits, and Fools, Local 6-7/8.

[nightsea.livejournal.com]

I think it's really the spiteful comments that get to me the most. People change. What's that old saying.. 'change is the only constant.' In a replationship, we all hope that any change that occurs is of the type that's compatible with us, but sometimes it doesn't happen that way. That's no reason to wish horrible things on that other person just because they may think differently from you.

As for the childless issue, I don't really like children much myself. I don't -hate- them by any means, but I'm just not ready to have any of my own. My fiance feels the same way, but we also accept that some time in our lives we may feel differently about having children. Locking yourself into an inflexible stance in any relationship is a bad thing. Granted, the issue of having a child is perhaps the most serious decision a couple can make, and compromise on the issue is difficult, it doesn't necessarily have to tear a couple apart.

[goddess588.livejournal.com]

I just can't go there anymore.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

Gawd. You know, I can see not really liking kids. I get that part. But why are so many (not all) self-described "childfree" people misanthropic assholes?

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Actually, the gif of the toddler being kicked (I think I've seen it before) is funny, because it's so damned unreal. It made me laugh... and I'm even the sort that won't laugh at some things on the "funniest video" shows because people got hurt, for real. But the toddler didn't get hurt, and it looked like a little football. It's like laughing when an anvil falls on Wil E. Coyote, they're both just as fake. ::shrug.:: If we're thinking of the same thing.

And re: the woman who's husband is leaving her. That's so sad. =/ I mean, it's best that he leaves but it's so sad... my physics teacher, her boyfriend of five years (she was converting to Judaism and everything for this man) dumped her out of the blue because he suddenly decided he didn't want to date a woman who was 4'10. For some reason these seem parallel. He's the wrong guy and it's good he's gone, but it's still sad. People just would naturally say "he's an asshole" and they may mean it, but it may also be a way to cheer her up. When someone hurts you, normally you'll (well, most people) will come up with a reasoning to make themselves feel better. Sometimes calling him an asshole and hoping he goes sterile is what does it. I mean, I took a small amount of glee when one of the guys that made my life a living hell didn't get into the dream college he bragged about....

Sorry, I just like to play Devil's advocate. I haven't read childfree in forever, and I kind of think I'm a better person for it. Much less bitterness and bile in my life. I'm sure that's the community you took it from?

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Forgot to add: yeah, they were a bit too enthusiastic in condemning this stranger. Which is what really gave which of the childfree communities it was. I don't think he was an asshole (unless he went into the marriage thinking she would change-- THEN he was someone I'd like to beat, but that's because I really hate people that expect people to change for them) I was just mentioning one of the reasons they may have labelled him as such.

[conuly]

(unless he went into the marriage thinking she would change-- THEN he was someone I'd like to beat, but that's because I really hate people that expect people to change for them)

And if that's the case, maybe she did the same for him. I can't imagine that he thought she'd change and never ONCE said "you know, I really want kids".

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

It's possible, and I was working under the belief that he was one of those guys that said "what if..." she said "no" and he said "okay." In my experience, guys tend to be more ambivalent towards kids than she is. If he mentioned wanting kids (I guessed he'd never mentioned kids because it sounded out of the blue) then I wouldn't want to beat him. I just hate when guys believe the mother-in-law when she says "oh the girl will settle down. They all do."

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

The "she" meaning women in general. I can't think straight today. Mind screwing my head on for me?

[conuly]

And maybe he is an asshole. I really don't know. I do know that if she was the one leaving HIM because he kept pressuring HER, they'd react differently. Or, at least, I suspect that.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

No they wouldn't react differently at all.

"He was an asshole" but they'd tack on "you did the right thing!" *sarcasm* it's a bit of a no win situation with that.

[zarriq.livejournal.com]

I think that childfree's problems aren't very different than that of any other rant community about any subject, though CF boards do tend to get the brunt of "why are they so damn angry?" I've tried reading through several rant pages but just gave up, since for every reasonable complaint there are a dozen ridiculous ones.

[conuly]

Their rants tend more on the unreasonable side, though... Like customers_suck has said some things where I'm like "what? you're overreacting", but...

And then the people at childfree complain that they're misrepresented. Which is why it's not the community of choice for me.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm not a childhater, but I REALLY don't like being around the majority of them. Some of the stuff people post in there is genuinely funny, and some of it is genuinely supportive, but yeah there ARE lots of times when someone posts something way-out-there. I skim over those, cringe at them as I would react to a baby-goods aisle (yep I'm one of THOSE weirdos ;-) baby powder gives me headaches too), and skip over it in favor of better entries in my friends list.

Although I dno't know the details of that lady's husband breaking it off with her to have kids, I know I'd be devastated if Eric were to suddenly really want kids. Something like that would indeed affect our marriage. He originally wanted children basically because it's what was expected from him, but when I informed him pre-marriage that I didn't want them, he warmed up to that idea REALLY fast. *haha* We've got enough nieces and nephews and friends' kids if we ever wanted to play with any...and remind us why we don't want our own in one fell swoop.

I don't wish harm upon kids, but a reflex I acquired in childhood to attack anything that constantly annoys me would predispose me to unintentional physical abuse. It would also be neglectful to avoid the child if I were to have one.

If the unthinkable comes around and I happened to become pregnant, I would either rally for a way to do an embryo transfer to someone who could carry one with their bloodtype and other factors or simply put the infant up for adoption ASAP.

[conuly]

Hey, I'm not calling people weirdos for not liking the babyfood aisle, I just think that's going a bit... well... unhealthy.

And yes, I'm not mad or critical of her for being upset, I think if I were in that situation, I'd be either pissed or sobbing. But since we don't know the circumstances, it seems unfair to just label the guy as, well, anything other than somebody who wants to be a father. Of course, she and anyone else who knows the couple can label him and I'll keep my mouth shut.

*hugs* I hope you don't become pregnant, that seems as though it would be difficult for you. But there's no special need to hope that, so no worries.


I don't wish harm upon kids, but a reflex I acquired in childhood to attack anything that constantly annoys me would predispose me to unintentional physical abuse. It would also be neglectful to avoid the child if I were to have one.

Remind me never to annoy you... That's part of my notwantingkids, I've been way too violent towards family members already. I don't care that I *am* getting better, I really don't want to put a baby at risk, or a kid.

Oh, your scarf is done, I'm just putzing about sending it. Me lazy.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

*LOL* That's OK. I'll be looking forward to it. :-)

Yeah, you won't annoy me, I don't think. It has to be prolonged, and when someone older than a child does it, they're either mentally ill or doing it on purpose. Thankfully with internet, if someone WERE to get continually on my nerves, I could tell them off and then cut off all contact. I doubt you'll hit that nerve on me either.