Inconsistencies in Harry Potter...
Dec. 10th, 2003 03:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
conuly
Somebody posted today, and got me thinking about this. The post was about the death penalty, actually, so how it adds up to Harry Potter, I don't know.
1. Why was Black ever convicted? Why didn't they just interrogate him, and the other accused, with veritaserum? If they hadn't developed it at that point, why wouldn't they have agreed to use it when Harry and Hermione insisted he was not guilty, just to appease them?
2. Similarly, why didn't they use it on Harry during his trial? Why have trials at all when you have a truth serum?
3. And just how many unregistered animagi are running around? If you had the magical power to become an animagi, wouldn't you get a better job than reporter or on the run? Are these students completely unsupervis... nevermind that one.
4. Why, exactly, do they have to hide from the muggles? They say it started when they were feared by nonmagical people... but those people never could hurt them, so why keep hiding? What's the point? And some muggles clearly do know about the wizards, for example, the parents of all those kids. Why aren't they considered a threat by the officials? How are they convinced?
5. Why didn't they tell Harry how to get on Platform 9 3/4 in the letter? They presumably told the muggleborn kids, why not him?
6. In book 3, we find out that Lupin is a werewolf, but mostly he seems human. But in book 2, we find out that Hagrid used to try to raise werewolf cubs. Huh? That sounds like werewolves are mostly wolves!
7. How, exactly, did Hagrid's parents, um, do it? She's a giant, he's small, what exactly did they do?
8. The decree of underage wizardry was passed hundreds of years ago... but Petunia remembers her sister coming home and practicing magic as her homework. Snape remembers zapping flies off the ceiling as a teenager.... what gives?
9. And with all their power, etc, can't the ministry tell the difference between HARRY practicing magic and a HOUSE-ELF practicing magic?
10. Harry (and presumably everyone else) can do some magic without even thinking, like making glass disappear... but we're told that even saying an incantation slightly wrong can completely mess it up. So, is it the correct actions or the correct intent?
This is by no means an exhaustive list. I don't even expect answers, really, as all authors make mistakes. They're just things that have occured to me.
Edit: Here is a reply from Lizziey.
1. Why was Black ever convicted? Why didn't they just interrogate him, and the other accused, with veritaserum? If they hadn't developed it at that point, why wouldn't they have agreed to use it when Harry and Hermione insisted he was not guilty, just to appease them?
2. Similarly, why didn't they use it on Harry during his trial? Why have trials at all when you have a truth serum?
3. And just how many unregistered animagi are running around? If you had the magical power to become an animagi, wouldn't you get a better job than reporter or on the run? Are these students completely unsupervis... nevermind that one.
4. Why, exactly, do they have to hide from the muggles? They say it started when they were feared by nonmagical people... but those people never could hurt them, so why keep hiding? What's the point? And some muggles clearly do know about the wizards, for example, the parents of all those kids. Why aren't they considered a threat by the officials? How are they convinced?
5. Why didn't they tell Harry how to get on Platform 9 3/4 in the letter? They presumably told the muggleborn kids, why not him?
6. In book 3, we find out that Lupin is a werewolf, but mostly he seems human. But in book 2, we find out that Hagrid used to try to raise werewolf cubs. Huh? That sounds like werewolves are mostly wolves!
7. How, exactly, did Hagrid's parents, um, do it? She's a giant, he's small, what exactly did they do?
8. The decree of underage wizardry was passed hundreds of years ago... but Petunia remembers her sister coming home and practicing magic as her homework. Snape remembers zapping flies off the ceiling as a teenager.... what gives?
9. And with all their power, etc, can't the ministry tell the difference between HARRY practicing magic and a HOUSE-ELF practicing magic?
10. Harry (and presumably everyone else) can do some magic without even thinking, like making glass disappear... but we're told that even saying an incantation slightly wrong can completely mess it up. So, is it the correct actions or the correct intent?
This is by no means an exhaustive list. I don't even expect answers, really, as all authors make mistakes. They're just things that have occured to me.
Edit: Here is a reply from Lizziey.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 01:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 01:17 pm (UTC)Those are some interesting things to think about, Uly. I've been wondering about 7 for some time...
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 01:29 pm (UTC)Personally, I think Quidditch should be +50 for the snitch... not +150, unless each goal is way more than what, 10 points?
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:10 pm (UTC)That thing about doing magic unconciously bothered me too. And the underage wizard thing. Haven't thought about the rest very much. Is the truth serum dangerous, maybe?
About 7 - I don't think it's as hard as you make it sound - I'm going to try not to think too much about it though. But there are lots of species of animals where one sex is much bigger than the other.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:33 pm (UTC)I didn't find anything too odd about Seven-- I've actually heard of it in several other stories... and if you grew up on Xanth (like me) you just don't think about it. You. Really. Don't. Think. About. It.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:37 pm (UTC)Here, though, we assume they had conventional sex.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:49 pm (UTC)It wasn't until Anthony realized a lot of children read his books that he brought in the Adult Conspiracy crap, and soon after I stopped reading, disgruntled. Xanth officially ends after Golem in the Gears.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:36 pm (UTC)Not that I want to, but...
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:26 pm (UTC)Un huh.
I've thought about this. It's like... putting a hotdog in one of those kid's playland tubes. MAYBE they were kinky and the lil dude crawled up in there and... No, he'd suffocate... Unless he brought an oxygen tank!!...
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:10 pm (UTC)But.
1 and 2 are the typical example of a GM adding inventions and not thinking about the societal consequences. It's just sooo common in roleplaying, and in fiction too. (Good counterexample: The stars my destination, by Alfred Bester.)
And I chalk 10 up to inexperience in occult concepts. (The author's, I mean.) Or the lack of systemising ;)
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:16 pm (UTC)I know that. I'm not asking "what's JKR's problem?" I'm asking "How, in this universe, do they explain that?"
For example, in Star Wars, Episodes 1, 2 and 3 have battle droids. By Episodes 4, 5, 6 they have to resort to brainwashed Stormtroopers. Now, the real reason for this is that Lucas didn't have the technology to do droids properly when he made 4-6 and now he does. A potential "in the story" reason would be "the Emperor likes to mess with people's heads" or "it's a simple cost-benefits thing, droids are more valuable than humans".
And Michael Ende, I like him well enough, I could never get into his books the same way, though. Tamora Pierce, Diane Duane, those are more my style.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-11 12:11 pm (UTC)Then...
1-2. Trials are just COOL. At least from the perspective of a person who played with the thought of going to law school and becoming a judge (who gets the least money!) all too often (it's me). LOL.
10. This is simple to explain away - it depends on what you believe in. If you believe in correct actions, and you do the actions wrong, the magic'll misfire or fizzle. But if you believe in correct intent, it doesn't bother you. It's also possible for people with strong unconscious motives that they say they believe in the intent theory, while deep down they believe in action theory. So when they mess the actions up, it still fizzles, regardless of their conscious belief.
You can explain everything away with Freudian unconscious, but his is a hopelessly un-falsifiable theory. Which makes it well nigh unusable, at least from my perspective. But it's useful to create sloppy arguments with, LOL.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-11 12:20 pm (UTC)Tamora Pierce and Diane Duane? I guess they were never translated to my language. *sighy* (Which language is Harry Potter not translated into, by the way? Anyone knows? I don't)
English children's books are even harder to get here than English adult books. (Adults as in ADULTS, not as in PORN.) Excluding Michael Ende, he's ubiquitous. Which is pretty strange considering he's German and natürlich wrote originally in German.
But if I see some, I'll pick'em up. It's not likely though. *sad*
Are all stormtroopers brainwashed? I don't know much about the SW universe, I saw the movies and that's about all there is to my SW knowledge. Nice example, BTW. It completely clarified what you were thinking of (and what I skimmed over when reading the original post)
no subject
Date: 2003-12-11 02:50 pm (UTC)Harry Potter has yet to be translated into Klingon. I think.
As for Tammy and Diane... oh, you poor dear. Hm. Well, I know what you'd get for a
christmasnondenominational winter solstice present if I had the money, inclination, and address to ship it to. If you get the chance, start with Trickster's Choice from Pierce and So You Want to be a Wizard from Duane.no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:58 pm (UTC)Okay, going by book two, Nearly-Headless-Nick's deathday, that puts book two in 1992, right? Well, in GoF, Harry mentions that Dudley has a PlayStation in the letter he writes to Sirius after the "dream" of chapter one. Couldn't be possible since, unless Dudley had imported a Japanese or possibly American PS, the PlayStation was not released in Europe until September 1995, which is a year and two months or so too late. Sure, not a biggie, but still irks me to no end. :/
Had been totally wondering about one and two.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 04:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 04:28 pm (UTC)I like imagining it in the years I think fit. Right now. ^_^ The trio and the gang just seem so...modern. I think it fits, but I'm not going to try and back it up with facts or full moon dates or anything like how people are treating the NHN's deathday date. Just seems right to me. :D
This is Pidge, I just couldn't resist, sorry
Date: 2003-12-10 09:52 pm (UTC)2. Because using the veritaserum would have proved that Dumbledore was right.. Something Cornelius Fudge didn't want. He and most of the other wizard world were happily living in ignorance with the Dark Load rising to power again, and he really didn't care. Things were easier for him that way.
3. I dunno. It sounds like Rita makes a damn fortune from the drivel she writes about, and it's less dangerous then being a spy and getting paid for that.
6. I'm sure Riddle's comment about the werwolves wasn't too true. I mean, hagrid was a dirty halfblood, and a scapegoat for him, why would he tell the truth to Harry about him?
7. =O No comment.
9. I don't think so, really. They don't keep Squibs like Figg registered, so I doubt they'd keep tabs on a house-elf. It was probably either "oh, the Potter house" or something like that.
10. I wondered about that too. Mostly because of that one part in the Order of the Phoenix where the Death Eater casts a spell on Hermione yet he can't speak. Maybe it's the correct lip and wand movements, since Hermione has chastized them before saying the spell wasn't working because they were swishing it right.
Re: This is Pidge, I just couldn't resist, sorry
Date: 2003-12-11 06:37 am (UTC)But there's apparently a difference of sorts between elf and human magic... can't they just look for human magic?
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 01:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 01:17 pm (UTC)Those are some interesting things to think about, Uly. I've been wondering about 7 for some time...
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 01:29 pm (UTC)Personally, I think Quidditch should be +50 for the snitch... not +150, unless each goal is way more than what, 10 points?
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:10 pm (UTC)That thing about doing magic unconciously bothered me too. And the underage wizard thing. Haven't thought about the rest very much. Is the truth serum dangerous, maybe?
About 7 - I don't think it's as hard as you make it sound - I'm going to try not to think too much about it though. But there are lots of species of animals where one sex is much bigger than the other.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:33 pm (UTC)I didn't find anything too odd about Seven-- I've actually heard of it in several other stories... and if you grew up on Xanth (like me) you just don't think about it. You. Really. Don't. Think. About. It.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:37 pm (UTC)Here, though, we assume they had conventional sex.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:49 pm (UTC)It wasn't until Anthony realized a lot of children read his books that he brought in the Adult Conspiracy crap, and soon after I stopped reading, disgruntled. Xanth officially ends after Golem in the Gears.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 02:36 pm (UTC)Not that I want to, but...
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:26 pm (UTC)Un huh.
I've thought about this. It's like... putting a hotdog in one of those kid's playland tubes. MAYBE they were kinky and the lil dude crawled up in there and... No, he'd suffocate... Unless he brought an oxygen tank!!...
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:10 pm (UTC)But.
1 and 2 are the typical example of a GM adding inventions and not thinking about the societal consequences. It's just sooo common in roleplaying, and in fiction too. (Good counterexample: The stars my destination, by Alfred Bester.)
And I chalk 10 up to inexperience in occult concepts. (The author's, I mean.) Or the lack of systemising ;)
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:16 pm (UTC)I know that. I'm not asking "what's JKR's problem?" I'm asking "How, in this universe, do they explain that?"
For example, in Star Wars, Episodes 1, 2 and 3 have battle droids. By Episodes 4, 5, 6 they have to resort to brainwashed Stormtroopers. Now, the real reason for this is that Lucas didn't have the technology to do droids properly when he made 4-6 and now he does. A potential "in the story" reason would be "the Emperor likes to mess with people's heads" or "it's a simple cost-benefits thing, droids are more valuable than humans".
And Michael Ende, I like him well enough, I could never get into his books the same way, though. Tamora Pierce, Diane Duane, those are more my style.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-11 12:11 pm (UTC)Then...
1-2. Trials are just COOL. At least from the perspective of a person who played with the thought of going to law school and becoming a judge (who gets the least money!) all too often (it's me). LOL.
10. This is simple to explain away - it depends on what you believe in. If you believe in correct actions, and you do the actions wrong, the magic'll misfire or fizzle. But if you believe in correct intent, it doesn't bother you. It's also possible for people with strong unconscious motives that they say they believe in the intent theory, while deep down they believe in action theory. So when they mess the actions up, it still fizzles, regardless of their conscious belief.
You can explain everything away with Freudian unconscious, but his is a hopelessly un-falsifiable theory. Which makes it well nigh unusable, at least from my perspective. But it's useful to create sloppy arguments with, LOL.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-11 12:20 pm (UTC)Tamora Pierce and Diane Duane? I guess they were never translated to my language. *sighy* (Which language is Harry Potter not translated into, by the way? Anyone knows? I don't)
English children's books are even harder to get here than English adult books. (Adults as in ADULTS, not as in PORN.) Excluding Michael Ende, he's ubiquitous. Which is pretty strange considering he's German and natürlich wrote originally in German.
But if I see some, I'll pick'em up. It's not likely though. *sad*
Are all stormtroopers brainwashed? I don't know much about the SW universe, I saw the movies and that's about all there is to my SW knowledge. Nice example, BTW. It completely clarified what you were thinking of (and what I skimmed over when reading the original post)
no subject
Date: 2003-12-11 02:50 pm (UTC)Harry Potter has yet to be translated into Klingon. I think.
As for Tammy and Diane... oh, you poor dear. Hm. Well, I know what you'd get for a
christmasnondenominational winter solstice present if I had the money, inclination, and address to ship it to. If you get the chance, start with Trickster's Choice from Pierce and So You Want to be a Wizard from Duane.no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 03:58 pm (UTC)Okay, going by book two, Nearly-Headless-Nick's deathday, that puts book two in 1992, right? Well, in GoF, Harry mentions that Dudley has a PlayStation in the letter he writes to Sirius after the "dream" of chapter one. Couldn't be possible since, unless Dudley had imported a Japanese or possibly American PS, the PlayStation was not released in Europe until September 1995, which is a year and two months or so too late. Sure, not a biggie, but still irks me to no end. :/
Had been totally wondering about one and two.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 04:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-10 04:28 pm (UTC)I like imagining it in the years I think fit. Right now. ^_^ The trio and the gang just seem so...modern. I think it fits, but I'm not going to try and back it up with facts or full moon dates or anything like how people are treating the NHN's deathday date. Just seems right to me. :D
This is Pidge, I just couldn't resist, sorry
Date: 2003-12-10 09:52 pm (UTC)2. Because using the veritaserum would have proved that Dumbledore was right.. Something Cornelius Fudge didn't want. He and most of the other wizard world were happily living in ignorance with the Dark Load rising to power again, and he really didn't care. Things were easier for him that way.
3. I dunno. It sounds like Rita makes a damn fortune from the drivel she writes about, and it's less dangerous then being a spy and getting paid for that.
6. I'm sure Riddle's comment about the werwolves wasn't too true. I mean, hagrid was a dirty halfblood, and a scapegoat for him, why would he tell the truth to Harry about him?
7. =O No comment.
9. I don't think so, really. They don't keep Squibs like Figg registered, so I doubt they'd keep tabs on a house-elf. It was probably either "oh, the Potter house" or something like that.
10. I wondered about that too. Mostly because of that one part in the Order of the Phoenix where the Death Eater casts a spell on Hermione yet he can't speak. Maybe it's the correct lip and wand movements, since Hermione has chastized them before saying the spell wasn't working because they were swishing it right.
Re: This is Pidge, I just couldn't resist, sorry
Date: 2003-12-11 06:37 am (UTC)But there's apparently a difference of sorts between elf and human magic... can't they just look for human magic?