Question.

[conuly]

Does anybody else think that the Hogwarts Houses are self-selected? I mean, that the Sorting Hat basically just sends kids where they want to go? (And, following this, would this mean that the character traits are primarily developed after sorting, due to exposure to people who want to have the same character traits you want to have?)

Comments

[feathered.livejournal.com]

Harry's sorting would suggest that, wouldn't it?

I think it's a bit of both. After all, there are bound to be kids with low self esteem who don't recognize the qualities in themselves that would lead them to be a Ravenclaw or whatever. Neville is rather a case of this -- he's never struck me as being particularly sure of himself, especially not in the first few books.

[conuly]

Not just that. Everybody went exactly where they said they wanted to go - and the more they wanted to be there (Ron, Draco), the faster their sorting went. And Hermione thought Ravenclaw might be nice, and then she pops up and says that the Sorting Hat considered putting here there.

[cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, probably. Although it automatically sends anyone who might be important to the story into either Gryffindor or Slytherin, it seems. :)

[conuly]

That's because they self-select to be important. Hufflepuffs probably choose Hufflepuff so they can stay safe, and far away from the action.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I say that yes, it is, to an extent that. Harry is a case in point, when he wished for Gryffindor. One might make the claim that Draco is in Slytherin because it's expected of him, he and his family can't imagine him being anything but. Neville may very well have wished for Gryffindor in order to learn courage and strength (otherwise he seems rather Huffly to me.)

Yeah, I'd say that at least to an extent, it is self-selective. It seems more like the hat delves into the subconscious and "chooses" from that.

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

I think it's a combination.

I mean, the kids are shown all about the houses and what kind of people go in it, right? So, the kids all do little tests and quizzes (Wizard Cosmo?) to see where they would go.

Well, that would work for most of the people.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

I think if someone wants to go somewhere or doesn't want to go somewhere, it adds weight (sometimes final weight) to the decision, but if they don't know anything about the Houses and therefore don't have any preferences it'd have to put them somewhere based on other qualities.

[conuly]

But they do kno something about the houses - prior to sorting them, the hat does a whole song and dance about the virtues of each house.

Unrepentant webcomic plug

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

As Sluggy Freelance (http://www.sluggy.com) puts it, Slytherin exists solely "because we like keeping all our bad guys in one place for simplified management." (http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020908) You wouldn't think that the Sorting Hat would send someone with the rat-bastard tendencies of Malfoy to Hufflepuff, just because they wanted to go there.

Oh, and because I went to the trouble to dig up the references, here're links to the Sluggy take on Quidditch (http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020915), and what to do with Malfoy (http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020907).

[http://users.livejournal.com/_outtonight/]

I think that a desire to be in a certain house helps weigh what the Sorting Hat decides, but the final decision is split. When I first thought about what House I would be in, I knew I was a Ravenclaw, but I wanted so badly to be a Gryffindor because I wanted to be brave. If I had been sorted based solely on my desire to be in Gryffindor, I would have been sorted into the wrong House, because while bravery and glory were something I wanted, it wouldn't have been a decision in my best interest. I am a Ravenclaw though and though, but it took me a while to accept that. If Harry had begged to be in Hufflepuff, I still think the Sorting Hat would have placed him in Gryffindor because it's the House that holds his best interests and places his qualities correctly.

[shinga.livejournal.com]

Maybe, to a degree. But even if some obviously Hufflepuff kid was like "PUT ME IN SLYTHERIN", the Sorting Hat probably wouldn't do it. o_O But if it's more of a tie... maybe the Hat lets them kind of point in one direction or another, which gives insight to a bit more of their personality and therefore, probably where they belong.

[conuly]

But would an "obviously Hufflepuff" kid do that?

Did Hermione, Ron, or Harry seem to be especially daring when they entered Gryffindor? Or Neville, is he full of chivalry? What about Draco? When he first entered the school, how ambitious was he?

I'm not so certain that these traits aren't shaped by being in the house, surrounded by people who want those traits.

[ex-chaos-by-699.livejournal.com]

In a way it's sort of a chicken-or-egg question. I mean, sure what you want is probably an influence on what House you get sorted into. But your innate qualities also probably influence what kind of person you want to be. People tend to interested in the stuff that they're also the most able in, and then of course they develop those abilities further by persuing those interests.

Does that make sense?

[conuly]

About as much as the chicken/egg question.

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you.

[quoodlesong.livejournal.com]

Ah, the Hidden Depths of Harry Potter! Yes, I think that must be the case: "All get what they want; they do not always like it." Free will can be a scary thing.

[feathered.livejournal.com]

Harry's sorting would suggest that, wouldn't it?

I think it's a bit of both. After all, there are bound to be kids with low self esteem who don't recognize the qualities in themselves that would lead them to be a Ravenclaw or whatever. Neville is rather a case of this -- he's never struck me as being particularly sure of himself, especially not in the first few books.

[conuly]

Not just that. Everybody went exactly where they said they wanted to go - and the more they wanted to be there (Ron, Draco), the faster their sorting went. And Hermione thought Ravenclaw might be nice, and then she pops up and says that the Sorting Hat considered putting here there.

[cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, probably. Although it automatically sends anyone who might be important to the story into either Gryffindor or Slytherin, it seems. :)

[conuly]

That's because they self-select to be important. Hufflepuffs probably choose Hufflepuff so they can stay safe, and far away from the action.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I say that yes, it is, to an extent that. Harry is a case in point, when he wished for Gryffindor. One might make the claim that Draco is in Slytherin because it's expected of him, he and his family can't imagine him being anything but. Neville may very well have wished for Gryffindor in order to learn courage and strength (otherwise he seems rather Huffly to me.)

Yeah, I'd say that at least to an extent, it is self-selective. It seems more like the hat delves into the subconscious and "chooses" from that.

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

I think it's a combination.

I mean, the kids are shown all about the houses and what kind of people go in it, right? So, the kids all do little tests and quizzes (Wizard Cosmo?) to see where they would go.

Well, that would work for most of the people.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

I think if someone wants to go somewhere or doesn't want to go somewhere, it adds weight (sometimes final weight) to the decision, but if they don't know anything about the Houses and therefore don't have any preferences it'd have to put them somewhere based on other qualities.

[conuly]

But they do kno something about the houses - prior to sorting them, the hat does a whole song and dance about the virtues of each house.

Unrepentant webcomic plug

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

As Sluggy Freelance (http://www.sluggy.com) puts it, Slytherin exists solely "because we like keeping all our bad guys in one place for simplified management." (http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020908) You wouldn't think that the Sorting Hat would send someone with the rat-bastard tendencies of Malfoy to Hufflepuff, just because they wanted to go there.

Oh, and because I went to the trouble to dig up the references, here're links to the Sluggy take on Quidditch (http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020915), and what to do with Malfoy (http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020907).

[http://users.livejournal.com/_outtonight/]

I think that a desire to be in a certain house helps weigh what the Sorting Hat decides, but the final decision is split. When I first thought about what House I would be in, I knew I was a Ravenclaw, but I wanted so badly to be a Gryffindor because I wanted to be brave. If I had been sorted based solely on my desire to be in Gryffindor, I would have been sorted into the wrong House, because while bravery and glory were something I wanted, it wouldn't have been a decision in my best interest. I am a Ravenclaw though and though, but it took me a while to accept that. If Harry had begged to be in Hufflepuff, I still think the Sorting Hat would have placed him in Gryffindor because it's the House that holds his best interests and places his qualities correctly.

[shinga.livejournal.com]

Maybe, to a degree. But even if some obviously Hufflepuff kid was like "PUT ME IN SLYTHERIN", the Sorting Hat probably wouldn't do it. o_O But if it's more of a tie... maybe the Hat lets them kind of point in one direction or another, which gives insight to a bit more of their personality and therefore, probably where they belong.

[conuly]

But would an "obviously Hufflepuff" kid do that?

Did Hermione, Ron, or Harry seem to be especially daring when they entered Gryffindor? Or Neville, is he full of chivalry? What about Draco? When he first entered the school, how ambitious was he?

I'm not so certain that these traits aren't shaped by being in the house, surrounded by people who want those traits.

[ex-chaos-by-699.livejournal.com]

In a way it's sort of a chicken-or-egg question. I mean, sure what you want is probably an influence on what House you get sorted into. But your innate qualities also probably influence what kind of person you want to be. People tend to interested in the stuff that they're also the most able in, and then of course they develop those abilities further by persuing those interests.

Does that make sense?

[conuly]

About as much as the chicken/egg question.

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you.

[quoodlesong.livejournal.com]

Ah, the Hidden Depths of Harry Potter! Yes, I think that must be the case: "All get what they want; they do not always like it." Free will can be a scary thing.