Straight pride? Oy vey....

[conuly]

I think this is all a result of confusing and conflating two different definitions of the word "pride".

The first has to do with a sense of accomplishment. I am proud to have gotten 3 As and an A- last summer. I am proud to have gone to Stuy (even though I didn't stay there).

The second has to do with simply not being ashamed. That's what people mean they have gay pride, or black pride, or autistic pride. They haven't accomplished any of these things, they simply mean that they aren't ashamed of them and don't wish to change them. They have to say that they're proud because they're all minorities. Mainstream culture would generally prefer that these people change, or pretend to change, or act as though they've changed. Mainstream culture encourages people to be ashamed of things they cannot help, if those things make them different. Mainstream culture kinda sucks, doesn't it?

Anyway, as I was saying, you can't really use "pride" in a sense of "not being ashamed" unless you're a minority. People who identify as straight really aren't a minority, and make all the laws, and therefore don't get a parade. Sorry, duckies.

Comments

[xmorningxrosex.livejournal.com]

yes yes yes! You wouldn't believe how many times I've gotten into this argument with people who think that since gay people get parades and flags and whatnot, straight people should as well. And I've said some of the stuff you said, almost word for word too!

*high fives*

[conuly]

*grins* Danke. The problem is that word "pride". If we had another word for "nonashamedness" instead of making "pride" do double duty, we wouldn't be so bad off.

How about this: gay people (or whatever) are proud, if you're in the majority and have "pride" parades then you're merely prideful.

[zathras26.livejournal.com]

Anyway, as I was saying, you can't really use "pride" in a sense of "not being ashamed" unless you're a minority.

That's not true. As a heterosexual male who has often felt the backlash of militant feminism, I can honestly say that I've had to work for many, many years to be able to have "pride" in being a man, and men are not a minority.

[conuly]

I've never seen any actual militant feminism, but I may not be looking closely.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I never did like "pride" in that sense, simply because it opens up such a can of worms. We need a better term.

I just love the OMGHETOPPRESSION brigade. 'Cause they've totally been fired, assaulted and murdered for being into the opposite sex. :P You have to wonder just how fucking insecure these people are.

(Actually, no, you don't. It's bleeding obvious.)

[conuly]

(Actually, no, you don't. It's bleeding obvious.)

It's also obvious that some of them are just repressing their natural bisexuality. Straights, like whites, are really a minority when you look at the big picture.

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

I think that the link between pride and being a minority is why so many white people don't really realize that they have a distinct race and can be proud of it. I don't mean stupid Neo-Nazis; I mean being able to say that you recognize that you have a racial identity, even though it's the majority of this country.

I'm wording this badly.

It's just that when I was in jr. high and high school in Washington state, it never really occurred to me that my skin color meant anything, not in the way that my Chinese-American or African-American or Native American friends had meaning. I wasn't special. I was just plain old boring white. Logically I knew that it was my race, but it took a while before I decided to be proud of being who I am, racially as well as personally.

Part of that difficulty is definitely due in part to the freaks who say "White Power" and give us all a bad name, but it's also because not being a minority makes it almost embarrassing to say, "This is my race. Yay!"

Geez, I feel uncommonly unintelligent tonight. Maybe I should sleep. I'd delete this and rewrite it later, but it's already typed and everything!

[conuly]

No, I think I understand what you mean, though I doubt I could rephrase it.

[deceptica]

You know, I always thought this whole "minority pride" thing was a bit weird, seeing how people always emphasize that they didn't choose to be that way. It never occurred to me that they simply might be using another definition of the word pride. Hmm.

[conuly]

*nods* It took me a while to figure that one out too, but this is the explanation that makes sense, and incidentally also explains why the sillies manage to make themselves look sillier - it's a miscommunication.

[targaff.livejournal.com]

Just setting aside the majority of the post for a moment, I have to say that I do have an issue with parades, because I never really saw them as anything other than counterproductive. Yes, they're (basically) a celebration of not being ashamed and of being proud in who you are; but at the same time, it's a celebration of not being the "alleged" norm - it highlights the fact of being different and ultimately reinforces the isolation of that group as apart from that perceived norm. And it's also an effective way to polarise the issue for those who are to the opposite side of the middle ground on the matter by getting in their faces.

I'm not saying that parades don't serve a useful purpose, particularly in the pride aspect you're talking about; but I do find that they're as much a hindrance as a help in furthering the acceptance of those minorities by the world at large.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how much they help with acceptance, but I think they may serve a useful function in helping people still in the closet realize that they're not alone and being out is a possibility. That having a chance for happiness rather than hiding in misery for your entire life is a possibility. And some people really need that.

[xmorningxrosex.livejournal.com]

I think parades do promote acceptance. Say you're in a small town of 10,000 people. You go to the bars, you sit in class, etc. but still don't think there's anyone there other than straight people...or maybe a couple really obviously gay people. So you think that gay people are in the minority. It's not 10% of the population, it's just those few obviously gay ones. But then your town throws a LGBTQ pride parade. You see a LOT of people there. Some are just supporters sure, but you realize that the girl sitting next to you in Math is there, and so is your science teacher. and *gasp* you never would have suspected them of teh gay!!1 I think it shows that LGBTQ people can be all types, and that they're everywhere - small towns, religious campuses, professional fields, sitting right next to you. And I think that can be eye-opening for some. "Oh, maybe I better not assume everyone here is straight...and maybe I should stop calling people fags because I don't want to piss people off." type of thing. It shows that being non-hetero is a normal thing, many people are, and just because they're into someone of their own gender doesn't mean they can't be someone you know or admire or deserve less rights.

I hope I explained that okay...

[xmorningxrosex.livejournal.com]

yes yes yes! You wouldn't believe how many times I've gotten into this argument with people who think that since gay people get parades and flags and whatnot, straight people should as well. And I've said some of the stuff you said, almost word for word too!

*high fives*

[conuly]

*grins* Danke. The problem is that word "pride". If we had another word for "nonashamedness" instead of making "pride" do double duty, we wouldn't be so bad off.

How about this: gay people (or whatever) are proud, if you're in the majority and have "pride" parades then you're merely prideful.

[zathras26.livejournal.com]

Anyway, as I was saying, you can't really use "pride" in a sense of "not being ashamed" unless you're a minority.

That's not true. As a heterosexual male who has often felt the backlash of militant feminism, I can honestly say that I've had to work for many, many years to be able to have "pride" in being a man, and men are not a minority.

[conuly]

I've never seen any actual militant feminism, but I may not be looking closely.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I never did like "pride" in that sense, simply because it opens up such a can of worms. We need a better term.

I just love the OMGHETOPPRESSION brigade. 'Cause they've totally been fired, assaulted and murdered for being into the opposite sex. :P You have to wonder just how fucking insecure these people are.

(Actually, no, you don't. It's bleeding obvious.)

[conuly]

(Actually, no, you don't. It's bleeding obvious.)

It's also obvious that some of them are just repressing their natural bisexuality. Straights, like whites, are really a minority when you look at the big picture.

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

I think that the link between pride and being a minority is why so many white people don't really realize that they have a distinct race and can be proud of it. I don't mean stupid Neo-Nazis; I mean being able to say that you recognize that you have a racial identity, even though it's the majority of this country.

I'm wording this badly.

It's just that when I was in jr. high and high school in Washington state, it never really occurred to me that my skin color meant anything, not in the way that my Chinese-American or African-American or Native American friends had meaning. I wasn't special. I was just plain old boring white. Logically I knew that it was my race, but it took a while before I decided to be proud of being who I am, racially as well as personally.

Part of that difficulty is definitely due in part to the freaks who say "White Power" and give us all a bad name, but it's also because not being a minority makes it almost embarrassing to say, "This is my race. Yay!"

Geez, I feel uncommonly unintelligent tonight. Maybe I should sleep. I'd delete this and rewrite it later, but it's already typed and everything!

[conuly]

No, I think I understand what you mean, though I doubt I could rephrase it.

[deceptica]

You know, I always thought this whole "minority pride" thing was a bit weird, seeing how people always emphasize that they didn't choose to be that way. It never occurred to me that they simply might be using another definition of the word pride. Hmm.

[conuly]

*nods* It took me a while to figure that one out too, but this is the explanation that makes sense, and incidentally also explains why the sillies manage to make themselves look sillier - it's a miscommunication.

[targaff.livejournal.com]

Just setting aside the majority of the post for a moment, I have to say that I do have an issue with parades, because I never really saw them as anything other than counterproductive. Yes, they're (basically) a celebration of not being ashamed and of being proud in who you are; but at the same time, it's a celebration of not being the "alleged" norm - it highlights the fact of being different and ultimately reinforces the isolation of that group as apart from that perceived norm. And it's also an effective way to polarise the issue for those who are to the opposite side of the middle ground on the matter by getting in their faces.

I'm not saying that parades don't serve a useful purpose, particularly in the pride aspect you're talking about; but I do find that they're as much a hindrance as a help in furthering the acceptance of those minorities by the world at large.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how much they help with acceptance, but I think they may serve a useful function in helping people still in the closet realize that they're not alone and being out is a possibility. That having a chance for happiness rather than hiding in misery for your entire life is a possibility. And some people really need that.