Thank you...

[conuly]

Article on the Real Meaning of Channukah

Not that I'm Jewish. I've got my cousin Frances, but I don't think she's really Jewish either. However, I've been *trying* to tell people that Hannukah isn't a major holiday for *years* now. I get the same sort of responses as I do when I try to tell people that God sent an animal to kill 42 children for calling a man bald. Honestly, I don't know why I even bother.

Actually, I *don't* know why I bother. That's really rather mean-spirited of me, isn't it? Well, they started it. Usually.

Comments

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, that article is GREAT. I love it. I want to marry it.

[snale.livejournal.com]

when I try to tell people that God sent an animal to kill 42 children for calling a man bald
Wait... what?

[conuly]

Not making this up. It's in Kings. Hold on...

[conuly]

2 Kings 2:23-24

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.... isn't this a case of Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc? I mean, just cause a couple of bears came out of the woods doesn't mean God sent them....

Oh, right. Forgot about that whole "God always means it to happen that way" thing. Right-o.

[conuly]

Yeah, well, the Bible said that God did it, so if you believe in the Bible you have to believe that God did it.

[conuly]

Or at least it is implied strongly.

[snale.livejournal.com]

Hee! AWESOME! I hadn't heard this one before. Thanks. Now I have something fun to share with the family over Christmas dinner.

[rachelkachel]

Oh yes, I remember that story! I never liked Elisha. Elijah was much cooler.

[brienf.livejournal.com]

Back then, elite bald men couldn't join a hair club or pay for transplants. Sic-ing bears on those who mocked them was the next best thing.

[readerravenclaw.livejournal.com]

It's true that Chanukah isn't a major Jewish holiday.

It's true that there is no source for giving gifts on Chanukah. (Though there is a source/tradition for people to give gifts of money.)

And the article that you linked to is certainly not making any revelations. Here's a link to another article which mentions the irony of giving gifts on Chanukah: http://www.aish.com/chanukahbasics/chanukahbasicsdefault/Giving_Gifts.asp

However, giving "Christmas" presents instead is just pathetic. Where's the logic in that? To commemorate the birth of the founder of a different religion, just because you want to avoid calling them Chanukah presents? Let's face it: if a Jew gives gifts during Christmas time, that's the result of assimilation. Calling them "Chanukah presents" doesn't make that situation worse; even if it's somewhat ironic, at least it helps prevent Jewish parents from giving their kids the impression that they celebrate Christmas. And "evil"? This guy has really warped definition of morality if he calls that evil.

[conuly]

Despite his protestations, I don't think he *actually* believes that it's evil.

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

We Yidden appreciate your work on this.

Todah Rabah.

speaking as a "halfbreed" Jew married to another...

[fascinoma.livejournal.com]

...that's two interfaith families. Each of us comes from a family with one Christian parent and one Jewish parent. The Channukah/Christmas competition (which of our families can throw the bigger shebang, and buy the most overpriced crap) will be a feature in our household as long as we're married.

You're absolutely right. Channukah is not the big holiday that Xmas is. That's part of the problem for many Jewish families around this time of year. The simple Channukah traditions just don't compete with a big tree full of cheap tinsel. But for me, it's just as much the reason I prefer being around my Jewish family this time of year; there's more sincerity and less commercialistic kitsch.

One of the tensions we're dealing with is the fact that my mate grew up with Christian holiday traditions. I feel personally invaded by bringing these traditions into the home, nor do I feel that they're compatible with raising Jewish children. Somehow, this issue never got "talked about" before we got together.

I know that there will be a lot of tension when we have kids.

Re: speaking as a "halfbreed" Jew married to another...

[conuly]

I would really suggest that you talk about it before you have kids. Before you're even about to have kids, y'know? The last thing you want to do is to have a fight as the baby is opening his/her presents.

[prezzey.livejournal.com]

FYI: Chanukah gelt can involve real money, so yes, there is a tradition of giving gifts on Chanukah... but only money. (Has a halachic reason AFAIK)

Chanukah is more of a national holiday than a religious one (after all it has to do with freedom fighters), so someone *can* observe Chanukah if they aren't religious but still feel part of the "tribe" - most Jews here in Hungary are like that. Even our ultra-secular Sochnut guys light their candles.

But yes, it isn't a major religious holiday.

(I'm Ortho duh so I observe the tiniest minor
holidays ;] But I'm a huge minority here.)

[conuly]

So, wait, why do people give money?

[prezzey.livejournal.com]

AFAIR, it's supposed to be a reminder of one of the commandments of Chanukah. It's important that you should not use the lights of the chanukiah for other purposes than as a reminder of the events that we commemorate on Chanukah. The example used for "other purposes" has traditionally been "you can't count your money by the chanukiah's light". So, giving money is a reminder of this commandment.

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, that article is GREAT. I love it. I want to marry it.

[snale.livejournal.com]

when I try to tell people that God sent an animal to kill 42 children for calling a man bald
Wait... what?

[conuly]

Not making this up. It's in Kings. Hold on...

[conuly]

2 Kings 2:23-24

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.... isn't this a case of Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc? I mean, just cause a couple of bears came out of the woods doesn't mean God sent them....

Oh, right. Forgot about that whole "God always means it to happen that way" thing. Right-o.

[conuly]

Yeah, well, the Bible said that God did it, so if you believe in the Bible you have to believe that God did it.

[conuly]

Or at least it is implied strongly.

[snale.livejournal.com]

Hee! AWESOME! I hadn't heard this one before. Thanks. Now I have something fun to share with the family over Christmas dinner.

[rachelkachel]

Oh yes, I remember that story! I never liked Elisha. Elijah was much cooler.

[brienf.livejournal.com]

Back then, elite bald men couldn't join a hair club or pay for transplants. Sic-ing bears on those who mocked them was the next best thing.

[readerravenclaw.livejournal.com]

It's true that Chanukah isn't a major Jewish holiday.

It's true that there is no source for giving gifts on Chanukah. (Though there is a source/tradition for people to give gifts of money.)

And the article that you linked to is certainly not making any revelations. Here's a link to another article which mentions the irony of giving gifts on Chanukah: http://www.aish.com/chanukahbasics/chanukahbasicsdefault/Giving_Gifts.asp

However, giving "Christmas" presents instead is just pathetic. Where's the logic in that? To commemorate the birth of the founder of a different religion, just because you want to avoid calling them Chanukah presents? Let's face it: if a Jew gives gifts during Christmas time, that's the result of assimilation. Calling them "Chanukah presents" doesn't make that situation worse; even if it's somewhat ironic, at least it helps prevent Jewish parents from giving their kids the impression that they celebrate Christmas. And "evil"? This guy has really warped definition of morality if he calls that evil.

[conuly]

Despite his protestations, I don't think he *actually* believes that it's evil.

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

We Yidden appreciate your work on this.

Todah Rabah.

speaking as a "halfbreed" Jew married to another...

[fascinoma.livejournal.com]

...that's two interfaith families. Each of us comes from a family with one Christian parent and one Jewish parent. The Channukah/Christmas competition (which of our families can throw the bigger shebang, and buy the most overpriced crap) will be a feature in our household as long as we're married.

You're absolutely right. Channukah is not the big holiday that Xmas is. That's part of the problem for many Jewish families around this time of year. The simple Channukah traditions just don't compete with a big tree full of cheap tinsel. But for me, it's just as much the reason I prefer being around my Jewish family this time of year; there's more sincerity and less commercialistic kitsch.

One of the tensions we're dealing with is the fact that my mate grew up with Christian holiday traditions. I feel personally invaded by bringing these traditions into the home, nor do I feel that they're compatible with raising Jewish children. Somehow, this issue never got "talked about" before we got together.

I know that there will be a lot of tension when we have kids.

Re: speaking as a "halfbreed" Jew married to another...

[conuly]

I would really suggest that you talk about it before you have kids. Before you're even about to have kids, y'know? The last thing you want to do is to have a fight as the baby is opening his/her presents.

[prezzey.livejournal.com]

FYI: Chanukah gelt can involve real money, so yes, there is a tradition of giving gifts on Chanukah... but only money. (Has a halachic reason AFAIK)

Chanukah is more of a national holiday than a religious one (after all it has to do with freedom fighters), so someone *can* observe Chanukah if they aren't religious but still feel part of the "tribe" - most Jews here in Hungary are like that. Even our ultra-secular Sochnut guys light their candles.

But yes, it isn't a major religious holiday.

(I'm Ortho duh so I observe the tiniest minor
holidays ;] But I'm a huge minority here.)

[conuly]

So, wait, why do people give money?

[prezzey.livejournal.com]

AFAIR, it's supposed to be a reminder of one of the commandments of Chanukah. It's important that you should not use the lights of the chanukiah for other purposes than as a reminder of the events that we commemorate on Chanukah. The example used for "other purposes" has traditionally been "you can't count your money by the chanukiah's light". So, giving money is a reminder of this commandment.