Well, there's 20 intermittant minutes of my life I'll never get back

[conuly]

In the comments here, I didn't even want to watch the video, I just clicked through to downvote the random racists and homophobes, because why not.

And somehow I got involved in a really, really inane argument with the world's pettiest teacher.

I hate to inform you of this, but a lot of teachers were systematically fed a load of bull about phonics at some point in their teacher education. I don't really know what they're telling tyro teachers in ed school, other than that you can't sound out the word "the" (yes, you can) but a lot of them are really devoted to what they paid money to learn and super resentful when other people don't believe them because they are simply wrong.

I tried to do the classy thing, but eventually I had to inform her... she's been spelling the phrase "sight words" wrong this entire time. Because nothing creates confidence in another person's ability to teach the conventions of English spelling like the fact that they can't spell one of the most common words in the English language. (And yes, you can sound out both the words "sight" and "site". They're entirely predictable.)

Comments

[topaz_eyes]

You are far braver than I to even try to wade into the comments. Those of us who went through school when teachers taught phonics (I'm old), absolutely learned how to sound out "the." We even learned the rules of when its sound changes, depending on whether the following word begins with a consonant or a vowel.

Also, "sight words" is basic reading terminology! That is... certainly a flex to use the wrong word in a standard term with such confidence.

Also also, today I learned! ("tyro" = "novice") Yay new vocabulary!

[conuly]

"Oh! I bet you never have autocorrect errors!"

I mean, I do, but when I'm trying to sell people on my ability to teach reading and writing I fucking go back and fix them.

But I shouldn't be surprised. This woman has no fucking reading comprehension at all. Which is just typical, really.

You are far braver than I to even try to wade into the comments.

I actually got into a second ridiculous argument with somebody at the same time, where he starts off with "If your child isn't reading before they entered school you're a failure as a parent" and we basically got into a stand off of "nuh-huh" "yuh-huh" until I demanded he prove it. (And his example of a simple book any child should be able to read before kindergarten is Peter Rabbit, which, like most read-alouds, is actually at quite a high reading level and not a beginning text at all. Why are people.)

The important context here is that I wasn't able to fall asleep last night.

[mindstalk]

I was an early "self-taught" reader myself, but a friend's third kid (the first two were like me) was I think still not really reading at 7, but at 10 was able to follow subtitles on a somewhat fast and complex anime (Princess Principal). So yeah, kids catch up.

[marahmarie]

I was reading before kindergarten; my sister was not. Guess who had the worse case of dyslexia (didn't even realize I had a mild case myself until maybe my late teens)?

She's smart af, college-educated; writes beautifully. But back in the day society didn't acknowledge literal medical issues as legit reasons to not start reading early or say, all that well (same with spelling), so the whole assumption was you were just stupid, which unfortunately I bought into as the culture at the time had no counterpoint to that view (early GenX).

Sometimes I think if I'd died before I turned say, 45, I would've died a much lousier person as the ideas instilled in me by society and the lack of pushback on any of them back then was pretty fierce. My education on how brains and bodies work was limited to what others around me told me - and most of it was wrong.

Fortunately the internet - specifically social media I hung out on and still do to this day - challenged my beliefs, on everything from stereotypes to religion to politics, which I'm grateful for after spending years battling not just others but myself on these issues.

But it's still a(n) (un)learning process. Teach 'em when they're young! And for a very good reason. I feel like the internal struggles I have are the best proof there is of why it's better to just not mess kid's heads up with bad or false ideas to begin with.

Which is why I stopped arguing with folks on the internet years ago who hold views I could rip to shreds. You don't know what goes into what they're thinking, nor what might come out of it with time. Most people likely won't, but some can and do change, and I don't want to be the person they'll think back on as, "Oh, and she'd never guess how I feel on that now".

[conuly]

Yeah, I know better. We all know better. But sometimes it’s like eating that one more cookie.

[minoanmiss]

*fans your brain* Seshat blesses your efforts at imparting a clue.

[conuly]

I’m not sure if I sufficiently explained how inane that convo was. Honestly, should’ve skipped it altogether. Talk about casting my pearls before swine!

[conuly]

Sorry, I wasn't able to fall asleep last night, therefore I looked for ways to occupy my time. Not the other way around.

[mindstalk]

depending on whether the following word begins with a consonant or a vowel.

A choir teacher taught me the 'rule', but I forgot it. (So I'm not sure how much of a rule it really is.)

[conuly]

You likely do it automatically when speaking, the same way you automatically pick a or an.

[archersangel]

i wonder if this kind of thing is from the culkin's method of learning words through their context and meaning rather than by letter sound.

[conuly]

Maybe not that particular method per se, but clearly they've imbibed a lot of Whole Word propaganda.

And it's never a word that actually is difficult to sound out!

It's not like we have a shortage of high frequency words that are tricky to sound out! But these people never bring them up.

[sgatazmy]

That’s impressive…wow

[conuly]

Impressive, but not surprising. When they learn it before they become teachers then it can be very hard to shake it.

[silveradept]

I think we've finally had enough studies done that show the Whole Word method, and those based on it, do not actually help kids learn to read, while phonics does, even if it's sometimes boring as fuck. Unfortunately, there are still far too many people whose ability to make money requires them to disbelieve or cast aspersions on those studies and their conclusions.

But also, sight words. That's important to be able to spell. And to correct if you have something that doesn't want to spell it correctly.

[conuly]

All reading instruction is boring. Predictable text is boring, as are Dick and Jane style readers, and those are the two options for early leaning using whole words. At least with phonics instruction kids can move to real books asap.

[halfshellvenus]

Is this the literacy gap cause by education systems mandating "Whole Language Theory" rather than phonics?

I wrote an entire rant on that for LJ Idol a few weeks ago. That process was firmly in place around the country when my kids were growing up, and it was what education teachers were being taught. Our own local school found a way around it, so the neighborhood kids were spared. But that did nothing to help all the kids victimized by the national adoption of someone's untested education theory. /o\

[conuly]

When teachers are committed I honestly don’t know how to fix it.

[thekumquat]

At least here we only really get the arguments between Old Phonics and Synthetic Phonics. Though the kids who suffered the Initial Teaching Alphabet are still alive (age 50-60) and pissed off about it.

[fred_mouse]

I had not previously encountered the ITA. Wow, reading about that was .. let's go with infuriating. I'm not surprised that people exposed to that were pissed off!

[pwcorgigirl]

I used to correct the directions on my son's school assignments with a red pen because the grammar was so bad. It was rare that he had a teacher, even an English teacher, who could spell or use the language well.

[conuly]

I'd normally say that of course nonstandard grammar isn't good or bad, it's just different - but if there's one place where standard grammar is called for it's during the years of compulsory education, if only because our society generally insists upon it, like wearing clothing