conuly | Eva and I have been doing a film study of sorts

From:

Looks like you had a lot of musicals in the mix. If you're looking for more of those the film adaptation of Cabaret with Liza Minnelli is fantastic. There's also the 2007 musical version of Hairspray, which was a lot of fun.

Not sure if either of you like older classics, but Singing in the Rain is really fun and very good too.

From:

brokenallbroken

Given the dislike of West Side Story, Cabaret might be a bit too...much. Hairspray could be good.

We were always partial to Music Man and Unsinkable Molly Brown, on the older side of the catalog.

Also Fiddler, if

conuly is still looking to inject some more non-Christian religious education in the mix.

Edited (How could I forget Tevye?!) Date: 2019-04-13 06:29 am (UTC)

From:

lightbird

True, Cabaret might be a bit heavy. Although it deals with issues too Hairspray is a quite a bit lighter.

From:

conuly

That was actually a happy accident!

I don't think we'll do Cabaret - I feel I spent entirely too much of my childhood reading Holocaust/WWII fiction (for fun, no less) and don't want to put that on Eva unless she heads in that direction herself.

From:

lightbird

Understood. There are some entertaining and comedic parts of it (and the cast is phenomenal), but ultimately it is very heavy given the subject matter.

From:

siderea

What does she like in a film? Give me something to work with!

From:

conuly

I actually don't know and I'm not getting much useful information out of her. I know she liked Black Panther, she liked The Lego Movie, she likes Studio Ghibli, but who doesn't?

I just want something with a veneer of respectability, that could pass as educational.

From:

siderea

It's a miniseries, not a movie, but: "Roots"? I've never seen it myself, but I understand it's a big deal (and would like to).

Have I waxed rapsodic to you about "Something the Lord Made"?

Has she seen "Hidden Figures" yet?

From:

conuly

She may have seen Hidden Figures with her parents, but I haven't.

Roots, now... that's the one with Geordi LaForge, what's his real name?

From:

brokenallbroken

I just want something with a veneer of respectability, that could pass as educational.

How about Literature?

The Keira Knightley Pride & Prejudice is highly regarded and gives many bloggers I follow All The Feels. Or 10 Things I Hate About You, for a Shakespeare a young teen might find fun. (Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet is kind of on the intense side) It seems like there was whole jag in the 90's of adapting the greats for teen audiences.

Or heck, Branagh's Much Ado is charismatic enough to get over the original-text hump (captions help).

On the more actiony side, there have been several good Three Musketeers and Robin Hoods (not the Taron Egerton one, though, please. Even Kevin Costner is better than that). I think most of Errol Flynn's catalog would qualify.

I haven't seen Song of the Sea or Secret of Kells, but they both make the Celticists on my Tumblr dash squee. Prince of Egypt is also a gold standard, if you're still trying to do other-religions exposure.

From:

siderea

Or heck, Branagh's Much Ado is charismatic enough to get over the original-text hump (captions help).

So, I was a big fan of this until I saw the Whedon's Much Ado, which was, as they say, a revelation. I realized upon seeing it that not only hadn't I really understood what it was about*, apparently neither had Branagh or anyone on his team.

The Whedon version is way, way less fun. That's actually the point. It's not supposed to be a fun "comedy". It's actually very dark, and very, very angry. And parts of it are very difficult to watch. In Whedon's version, it makes perfect sense that Hero faints dead away when she does and that the other characters might reasonably assume she just died on the spot.

So while the Branagh version is fun, I don't recommend it for understanding the play.

* The title "Much Ado About Nothing" is meant ironically, and is ironically and snarkily (like the protagonist!) expressing how the meat of this story – which is about women's lives – is considered unimportant, "nothing". It's how what is life-or-death for women is considered "much ado about nothing" to the men who control their lives and dispose of them casually.

From:

greghousesgf

I never did like how we're supposed to think it's a happy ending that Hero took Claudio back.

From:

siderea

...I'm not saying you're wrong to feel that way, but. "Take him back"? There are exactly four possible outcomes from Hero after what Claudio does to her on her wedding day:

1) Become a whore 2) Become a nun 3) Become dead 4) Get married by Claudio

The thing about the Whedon version which was so revelatory to me was that unlike the Branagh confection, it actually manages to page in to consciousness what one might know about Shakespeares' society and the status of women there and then, and make it clear just how horrifying what was done to Hero actually is and why Beatrice is devastated and homicidal over it.

To quote another play entirely: "I'm a girl in a world in which// My only job is to marry rich// My father has no sons so I'm the one// Who has to social climb for one". Hero has one job: to marry well. Once Claudio publically denounces her for unchastity – slanders her – she is unmarriagable. She cannot do her One Job. Which is why her father wants to kill her, if she turns out not to be dead. Friar Francis pleads with him for mercy, that if they can't get this sorted out, she can be sent away in secret to be a nun.

The only man who can marry her – and save her life – is the bastard who slandered her. He can recant his slander, and prove he means it by going through with the marriage. Nobody else will touch her. So it's him or the grave or the convent or the whorehouse. (This later option isn't even discussed, but it's kinda where courtesans come from, so should be taken as understood.)

Hero doesn't "take him back". She allows herself to be married to him. She does not protest any love for him, nor even joy at the occasion. When she is unveiled to him, she rebukes him: "And when I lived, I was your other wife: [unmasking] And when you loved, you were my other husband. [...] One Hero died defiled, but I do live, And surely as I live, I am a maid." (i.e. "SURPRISE! Yes, I am a virgin, you son-of-a-bitch").

And, technically, Claudio doesn't agree to marry her. He agrees, as penance for murdering Hero, to marry whomever is under the veil, sight-unseen.

It's not a love story. It's a Hero-isn't-destroyed story. It's a "feel good horror story", to use a term from an article that went viral recently, talking about "heart warming" stories that were only heart warming because they involved the victims of injustice and inhumanity managing to not be destroyed by virtue of the mercy and grace of others, stories which perversely illuminated how awful and unjust what befalls so many people in our society is. And that's what Much Ado is. Isn't it wonderful that Hero doesn't have to die or go into a convent or a whorehouse for the rest of her life, because the faithless bastard that dropped her like a hot rock because he trusted bros before hos was tricked into marrying her, yay? It's supposed to make you queasy. It's a feel-good horror story about how traditionalist society treats women; and, more fully, what it means to be a feminist ally, and how patriarchy makes romantic love at least fraught if not impossible.

From:

greghousesgf

this is true. of course neither of them will ever trust each other again.

From:

fred_mouse

Youngest suggests Princess Bride, and supports Hidden Figures as a good choice. Beyond that, most of the PG movies on our shelves are Disney. There is Rabbit Proof Fence which is supposed to be good, but I've not watched it.

Sapphires was amazing, but I don't know how much sexual content it had (PG rating though). Really explicit 1960s Australian small town racism in at least two scenes that I can think of and the young women end up in Vietnam singing to the troops. There is a lot you could talk about on so many levels there, and it is one of the very few movies that I can think of with strongly positive portrayals of Indigenous women.

From:

conuly

Ana and Eva didn't like Princess Bride, generally agreeing with me that the movie is really bad on feminism.

From:

hudebnik

She's presumably got enough classic-Disney background to get the references and twists in "Enchanted". Although "Enchanted", as

shalmestere points out, for all its positive messages, shares the too-common trope of male lead ditching his older, boring girlfriend for a younger model.

There are an awful lot of grownup pop-culture references that she won't get without having seen "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".

The animated "Watership Down" from 1978 is charming and faithful to the book, with an interesting mix of adventure and dark terror and a happy ending in which the central character dies.

From:

hudebnik

Oh, what about "The Artist" (2011, I think)?

From:

notasupervillain

Princess Bride.

From:

conuly

I can't even with that movie anymore. One day, out of the blue, I looked around and said "Gosh, that movie really is misogynistic, isn't it?" and since then I haven't been able to watch it.

Not that I don't still quote it now and again, I just can't watch it, much less enjoy it anymore.

From:

notasupervillain

Lol, the new Mad Max then, for the feminist storyline, but I wouldn't necessarily show it to a kid.

Finding Nemo. Kids movies can be great.

From:

conuly

...you know she's entering high school, right?

From:

notasupervillain

Yeah, but unless you're implying that she's already seen Finding Nemo, I stand by my recommendation. Children's movies are underrated by adults.

Hunger Games is a great movie too, don't get me wrong. But I think Finding Nemo is just as deep, without the grimdark.

From:

conuly

No, it was the flipside. At her age, unless it's outright porn or involves the death of an animal, there are few content warnings we mutually care about. I think she may even have seen Mad Max already.

Edited Date: 2019-04-17 02:58 am (UTC)

From:

notasupervillain

Hunger Games is a good movie. And marketed to YA.

From:

gatheringrivers

If you want something "brainy" and "cerebral" I also recommend arrival. I found it fascinating, but I easily see why it flopped in theaters - it requires too much thought on the part of most moviegoers.

(Key point of requiring thought: Language was challenging, but a surmountable problem, translations were happening, communication, while difficult, WAS happening. Math would NOT translate, no matter what. People math is base-10, we have 10 fingers. The aliens have 14 "fingers", so THEIR math is likely to be base-14...)

I'm also a fan of annihilation, but I wouldn't recommend that one for small kids.

Hidden Figures is amazing, and I recommend it highly!

From:

conuly

All right, all right, I'm convinced - Hidden Figures is on the list.

From:

movingfinger

Local Hero is a perfect movie.

April and the Extraordinary World---Jaques Tardi's visual style is interesting, this is based on that, and if you can get hold of The Extraordinary Adventures of Adele Blanc-Sec the movie it is a very toned-down version of the comic books (French, but subtitled, I don't think it's been dubbed). Blanc-Sec is a smoking, drinking investigative journalist in a Belle Epoque Paris plagued by mad scientists and mummies, pterodactyls, and other small problems. The movie centers on something not stressed much in the comics at all (kind of a sexist dumbing-down in a way), her relationship with her sister. Good silly fun, IMO.

If you have Kanopy, she might like Faces Places with Agnes Varda. Agnes and her pal go around France committing Art. It's not a high-stakes film and it isn't long. (Kanopy)

Taika Waititi's Boy is on Kanopy, you might find a rummage through their list helpful. They have Ocelot's Les contes de la nuit (silhouette animation), very beautiful, and I think I saw Kirikou and the Sorceress there.

Baahubali parts one and two are I think still on Netflix or maybe it was Amazon. Fast forward through the ridiculous battle scenes, stay for the great women characters. As the eponymous main character is a god incarnated, it's a little hard to complain about his grandstanding and making everything about him.

ETA: If she likes animation and fairy tales, Triplets of Belleville is an interesting update: a young man is ~~stolen by fairies~~ kidnapped and taken to ~~Fairyland~~ America, where he is imprisoned in an ~~enchantment~~ gangster hangout, forced to ~~empty the sea with a sieve~~ ride an endless bicycle race. His grandmother must undertake the quest to rescue him.

Edited (second thoughts) Date: 2019-04-13 05:52 pm (UTC)

From:

conuly

These are all movies I haven' heard of, thanks :)

From:

senmut

10 Things I Hate About You (decent modern take on Taming of the Shrew with a better twist to it? Plus Heath Ledger and Julia Stiles and Joseph Gordon Levitt and David Krumholtz)

My Fair Lady (I admit I prefer the movie to the play Pygmalion for the ending.)

Victor Victoria. (Comedic, period, genderbendery, lots of GREAT actors)

From:

conuly

I do love 10 Things.

As far as My Fair Lady goes, I don't think Eliza should end up with either one of them. She deserves better.

From:

senmut

I am in the camp of "marriage of convenience".

From:

ayebydan

The Imitation Game. war movie that is mostly true, code breaking, pro science, a woman kicking the door down to be recognised, gay character, prosecution of that character but showing that is bad] Not sure if above her age but...I mean if she saw ST.

Invictus. A rugby movie on surface but really, a movie based on the aftermath of Mandela's election in South Africa and how he saw the rugby team of White South Africa and how to move forward they all had to embrace it.

I am sure I have more to mind but am blanking but those are the ones at the forefront.

From:

elenbarathi.livejournal.com

Lots of suggestions, which I now have to retype because I lost the post: these are mostly pretty unconventional.

Cloud Atlas
Silent Running
The Secret of Roan Inish
Song of the Sea
Into The West (1992)
Blades of Glory
Martian Child
Moonrise Kingdom
Sky High
Flashdance
Stardust
Dogma
Evolution
Willow
Maleficent
Ever After
Project X
Arrival
The Bride
The Others
The Secret
The Invisible
The Quiet Earth
The Lion In Winter
The Kingdom of Heaven
The Company of Wolves
The Thirteenth Warrior
The City of Lost Children
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
House of Flying Daggers
Brother Sun, Sister Moon
King of Hearts (1966)
Being There
The Blue Lagoon
Don Juan de Marco
Tank Girl
50 First Dates
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything!
A Series of Unfortunate Events
Howl's Moving Castle
Romeo and Juliet (Zefferelli's version)
A Midsummer Night's Dream (the modern one, with bicycles)
Rosencrantz and Guilderstern Are Dead
Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical
Snow White: A Tale of Terror
Peter Pan (live version)
Swashbuckler
Time Bandits
Brazil

Edited Date: 2019-04-13 08:31 pm (UTC)

From:

conuly

Ooh, thanks.

From: (Anonymous)

Surely welcome! Note that The Secret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%282007_film%29) is the 2007 film, not the one based on some self-help book.

LOL, I'd say give her the list and let her pick for herself. Enjoy! I'd love to know what she picks, and what you and she both think. How many of those have you seen already yourself?

From:

conuly

Not a huge movie watcher, actually... although I have a huge love for Sky High. (If you don't see this, lemme know, I'll copy it over on LJ.)

From:

elenbarathi.livejournal.com

Surely welcome! Note that The Secret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%282007_film%29) is the 2007 film, not the one based on some self-help book. Also, Project X (1987) (Project X (1987 film)), no other.

LOL, I'd say give her the list and let her pick for herself. Enjoy! I'd love to know what she picks, and what you and she both think. How many of those have you seen already yourself?

[Another edit:] Oh yeah, can't forget 'Save The Last Dance', which my daughter really liked in her teens, and 'I Am Dragon', which she also likes.

Edited Date: 2019-04-13 09:23 pm (UTC)

From:

archangelbeth

Rosencrantz and Guilderstern Are Dead

While my Shakespeare teacher did not like my interpretation, I steadfastly claim that R&G Are Dead is them re-enacting the events that lead to their deaths, and they are in fact in a limbo afterlife.

...I also love the Takarazuka version of Hamlet, which expressly goes with "We're all dead and bored; let's put on a play! and dress up in REALLY WILD CLOTHES!" as the intro/framing device.