Apparently, Elizabeth Warren got a DNA test

[conuly]

This, I feel, is at best a waste of money and at worst a complete tactical error.

Obviously the Trumpers don't really care about her DNA. They just want to mock her in the most offensive way possible. They're not going to believe her (or even remember that they didn't bother to believe her) any more than they believed Obama about his birth certificate. Responding to them just lends them credibility and dignity that they thoroughly don't deserve.

Instead, she ought to be focusing on the people who matter, which is, those of us who might ever vote for her. And I don't think any of us care either. A great many people who aren't Native still have some Native American ancestry. Big deal! What she ought to do is mea culpa about calling herself Native American when she isn't tribally enrolled, which would show that she took the time to educate herself, which I think we all do care about, at least a little more than whether or not one of her distant ancestors was maybe Native American or not.

Comments

[redsixwing]

I don't think I got this from you, but it seems up your alley:

What Spotify's DNA-based playlists get wrong. (That is to say, everything about them.)

I'd much rather see her educate herself, and I'm worried about the popularity of these tests engraving bad ideas into even more of the population than currently hold them.

[lydy]

If she is contemplating a presidential run in 2020, as I have heard rumored, it makes sense to just get all this nonsense out of the way now. Much less damaging than when she's on the campaign trail. The mistake, ages ago, of claiming Native American ancestry is one that can't be undone. I would like it if she made a clear statement about not claiming tribal membership, and discussing exactly what that means as distinct from genetic heritage. I still have hopes that she'll actually do that. But I can see why getting this out of the way now might be politically savvy. Or, you know, not.

From the Cherokee Nation

[cactuswatcher]

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person's ancestors were indigenous to North or South America. Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, who ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is prove. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

- Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr.

[julian]

Yeah, she did a little mea culpa'ing at an Indian/Native American convention, awhile back, but more would really /really/ not be amiss.

And I completely agree on the tactical error. These are bullies; they don't care about facts.

[ioplokon]

I think she's trying to just have it dealt w/ now rather than in 2020 & draw attention back to Trump's failure to make promised charitable donations before the midterms. As always seems to be the case, the actual, legitimate concerns of Native Americans don't really seem to be a factor here.

Of course the side-effect that, tbh, i fear neither of them care about (or at least value far less) is the way this adds legitimacy to DNA-based notions of race. There's currently that case of a guy who has "black" DNA trying to get access to minority-targeted business aid, right? So in general, stunts like this lead legitimacy to those kinds of claims (and bring us back to that "one drop" rule, I guess).

However, I do think there are meaningful ways that those of us w/ Native American ancestry can talk about that, despite not being tribally enrolled*, since, you know, most of our family histories are a testament to the cultural genocide enacted against Native American nations (tho idk Warren's case seems a bit far-reaching, since she doesn't appear to have like, specific ancestors in mind).

edt: basically I think that white or mostly white people should focus on actually understanding the historical weight of their Native American heritage rather than on what "claims" it allows them to make, you know?

[calimac]

As I understand it, Warren never claimed to "be a Native American." She said that she believed herself to have some Native ancestry, according to family tradition, and what we now learn is that this is true.

Most importantly, she never tried to use this to get any kind of affirmative action benefit in hiring, which is the lie that Trump has been putting about.

[landofnowhere]

Here's the speech: the bit about her heritage is right after she retells Pocahontas's story.

(Edited to add) It's a start. She was clearly viewed as white where she grew up, though, or she would have worse stories to tell than her father's family disapproving of her mother, and she should acknowledge this.

[dewline]

Is he trying to use this to move the Overton window on her human rights and her life?

[julian]

Trump, and the right wing folks in Massachusetts. The right wing folks in Massachusetts have been harping on this *forever*, in similar ways to Trump, which is why the Globe did its write-up awhile back of the evidence.

[wpadmirer]

Yep.

[landofnowhere]

So first of all this is a ridiculous kerfluffle, I'm proud to have Warren as my senator, and I think practically speaking you're right on all relevant points, in particular that this has nothing to do with her hiring. On the other hand, based on my reading of the Harvard and Penn docs at https://elizabethwarren.com/fact-squad/archive/ , she did for a while choose to be listed as Native American instead of white in faculty directories where she was required to choose one (I think she's said she was hoping it would help her network with others of native ancestry), which is reasonable to interpret as claiming to be Native American. But she's clearly learned better since.

Re: From the Cherokee Nation

[8hyenas]

I hissed with absolute satisfaction when I read this response. Such an insult for her do to this, for a bet, and using the DNA tests. I'd still vote for her of course, but I disliked her before and loathe her now.

Yet another sickening day in US politics.


(ETA: I'm Native, and vote Democrat, upset by this on a personal level.)

[melannen]

It really means absolutely nothing, period, because those DNA tests are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to ethnicity fractions. But also because 8 generations back... 8 generations back *I* very likely have Native American ancestry, because we're talking 17th century at that point, and all we know is that a) several womens' names aren't recorded, and b) there were few enough white women in the area then that if they were white women, we'd probably know which ones, so probably at least a couple were either Indian or Black.

But. We're talking 1/512 at that point. Even if the commercial DNA tests could actually capture that (they can't), it would mean literally nothing about who I am now. Everyone whose ancestors were mostly in the US that far back probably has at least one NA ancestor.

I think it really is mostly a "gotcha" at Trump. (Possibly also usable later as a dig at the fact that his family are recent immigrants...)

[alexseanchai]

I know for facts I have Native ancestry. Got the genealogical records to prove it. (Or rather, my dad does.)

...the most recent fully Native person in my ancestry was contemporary with Pocahontas.

And yeah. Everything you said.

Re: From the Cherokee Nation

[julian]

I hear you.

I have the reflexive urge, as a Democrat from MA, to defend Warren, but I won't do it in here unless you actually want a conversation around the subject.

[julian]

In re: networking -- Per the Globe, yes.

But that still plays into the "these people get unfair advantages!" narrative, which is rank bullshit. (Which, I mean, I don't need to tell anyone *here* that, it's just all over Twitter and it bugs me.)

Re: From the Cherokee Nation

[conuly]

Yeah, I like to believe that people can change and grow, and she's surely not as bad on this issue as some people, but she's not trying to learn.

[conuly]

So in general, stunts like this lead legitimacy to those kinds of claims (and bring us back to that "one drop" rule, I guess).

As I understand it, with blood quantum rules in effect in (some? many?) tribes, there's no "back to" for certain tribes to begin with.

[robby]

Yes, I saw an article today that claimed, on average, that "white" Americans have .2% Native American DNA. It was a mistake for her to publicize her ancestry results.

[shadowkat]

Having done the whole DNA analysis thing myself -- this is just hilarious.
Also my sister-in-law did it -- and allegedly tracked herself back to Clovis Man.

Truth of the matter? They can't trace American Indian Tribes and most minorities, because the DNA wasn't collected and many geneological records have been lost or deliberately destroyed. (See the American Indian Wars as to why these records don't exist.)

The same problem exists for German lineage due to WWII, along with a lot of other regions. Scotland has the best records as does England. I was able to trace my Scottish, Irish, Welsh, and English roots all the way back to the 1600s for example. But I ran into a brick wall with the French, German, Scandinavian, and other roots.

I'm not sure why it matters at this stage. A co-worker, who is African-American and part Native American - loves to crack jokes about it at work.
As does my cousin who is part Sioux (her mother was half-Sioux).

[conuly]

I'm not sure she is "getting this out of the way".

Again, at best, the people she's trying to convince aren't listening and wouldn't believe her if they did, and the people she ought to be speaking to don't care about the genetics anyway.

At worst, she's just hyping them all up again.

[conuly]

What advantages!? They're more likely to live in poverty, more likely to be disenfranchised, and more likely to be shot by the cops.

[conuly]

Well, yes, that too.

[conuly]

Also my sister-in-law did it -- and allegedly tracked herself back to Clovis Man.

LOL.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Blood quantum rules are in effect with most if not all tribes, which can have some results that are horrible and often intended by the federal government which may have put them into law/statute in the first place.

One drop rule is different than blood quantum, and Show Boat can explain it better and more ridiculously than I can right now. cf. Jim Crowe.