Jenn is convinced I'm being unreasonable.

[conuly]

I was starting to make dinner, and Ana got into a snit because there wasn't a spare burner for her to make her Nestlé Mexican hot chocolate she had picked up at the corner store. I say that 8 ounces of chocolate milk - that's 256 calories, I went ahead and checked - is a dessert or a snack, not something she should be preparing right before dinner.

Jenn seems to think that drinks don't count, that they don't take up any space in the stomach that could go to actual food.

She also thinks that my occasionally buying 20 oz of soda to split among four people while eating pizza is comparable to each person getting 8 full ounces of hot chocolate. Never mind that that is 60% more to drink!

Then, of course, she pulled a classic Jenn trick of alternating between snapping and bitching at me or talking to me about something unrelated like she hadn't just done that, and got pissy and called me an "asshole" for telling her to knock it off. Yeah, when I am working at a hot stove, using a knife, I don't really want to chit-chat to somebody who is off-and-on angry at me. I cut and burn myself enough when I'm calm, happy, and by myself!

Comments

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

I do not drink anything but water with my meals, and to me to make a distinction between one sweet beverage and another is a complete artifice. Further, plenty of people, my mother included, drink coffee - with sugar and milk, often a significant amount of sugar - and no one would suggest that coffee is a dessert in that situation. I see no substantial difference between coffee with milk and sugar and hot chocolate.

Thursday is Connie's Dessert Day. The kids know this well. If Connie had told Ana "hey, I'm planning to make butterscotch pudding, did you really want hot chocolate for dessert INSTEAD?", the entire conversation would have been a very different experience, I'm sure. Connie gave Ana no indication that she had dessert planned and, it being Friday, Ana has no reason to expect her to.

Leftovers are all good and well, but we have limited fridge space and moderate appetites. To be left with an almost-completely-full second-largest-pot full of pasta is way too much. There were a minimum of ten very generous servings in that pot, and no one here is fond enough of pasta to eat it three days in a row, particularly when Connie has full meals planned already for each of those days. That's not even counting the salad, which is an entire serving bowl full. Connie herself acknowledges she often way overestimates and "cooks for an army", the problem being, two adults, two kids, and one adult with a kid-appetite do not an army make. Just yesterday Connie took the roasted fennel and carrot leftovers out to eat, left them on the counter for ten hours, with several reminders to eat and assurances she would, and ended up throwing the whole untouched bowl away. "Ideal leftover management" and actual in-practice leftover eating in this family are some ways apart.

[conuly]

That's not true, Jenn. The last day of the week is dessert day, and the kids know, because I explained it to them at the start, that that means Friday on the weeks that they don't go to Queens. I have explained this to you as well, but you never seem to retain that information.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

So what was ice cream Thursday? Breakfast?

[conuly]

We didn't have ice cream on Thursday.

[conuly]

And you are also forgetting that Mommy gets dinner as well. Aside from the fact that there aren't more than five servings of pasta left in the pot (and the box only makes six servings to start, not that I cooked a whole box), you left an entire person out of the dinner equation.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

No, I included her as the adult-with-kid-appetite. Because she never eats much.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

"plenty of people, my mother included, drink coffee - with sugar and milk, often a significant amount of sugar - and no one would suggest that coffee is a dessert in that situation. I see no substantial difference between coffee with milk and sugar and hot chocolate."

Coffee is an adult beverage, and one of the primary advantages of being an adult is being able to have dessert whenever one pleases. I like my morning coffee with a shot of Irish Cream in it; that doesn't mean I would let a child have the same. The argument that since adults do X, it's okay for children to do Y is fallacious.

Srsly, why be disingenuous about it? Yes, you're the Mom, and if you say it's okay for your children to have chocolate for supper, that is your choice. But in that case, it's for you to cook their supper, and then there can be no possible dispute.

This whole portion-control question is a side-issue, not relevant to the original dispute. It seems clear that you both would do well to disengage your sibling power-struggle programs, apologize for being hot-heads, and sit down to plan your meals and grocery budget together every week.

In my household, the cook rules in the kitchen, with complete autonomy about what to cook and how to cook it. No one is allowed in the food-prep area without the cook's permission, even to get a cup from the cabinet. No one is allowed to give the cook advice unless asked, or to otherwise distract the cook. Thanks are given for the meal beforehand, and to the cook at the end of it; food is not discussed at the table. Those who didn't cook wash the dishes and clean the kitchen afterward; the cook is expected not to have left a disaster area.

Your mileage may vary - if you don't like those standards, talk amongst yourselves about what standards you do like. Since the quality of the food depends to such a large extent on the feelings of the cook, it's important to set standards the cook is happy with, and then to keep to them. This whole tempest-in-a-teapot could have been avoided through better communication.

Sheesh, you guys, do you really want to go at it like this, having snits and calling names over such minor issues? It's not even Thanksgiving yet; if you start the season this way, what kind of shape are you going to be in by January? And if Mom and Auntie can't resolve their differences courteously and fairly, without snark and snipe and tit-for-tat, what will there be to say when Eva and Ana fuss and fight just the same?

I say nobody won the bet and nobody gets to say I-told-you-so, because all that noise is just silly. However, I will uphold two basic premises:

1. Chocolate=dessert. Adults may eat dessert whenever they damn-well please; children get dessert after supper, if the adults are pleased to give it to them, and if not, then not.

2. The cook is totally in charge of how the meal is prepared and served, and is not to be criticized, advised, argued-with or otherwise distracted while doing so. The cook has a right to not cook for people who don't respect this.