Reading comprehension, people....

[conuly]

I posted a review on Amazon where I mentioned, among other things, that I don't think it's a terrible thing for a picture book to include the line "Llama Llama hates this book!" to show that a small child is very upset and NOT willing to cooperate. This is the sort of thing, I said, that four year olds often say. (I was very clear when I said four year olds.) In my experience, they just looooooove to say strong and shocking things, especially if it gets them a reaction. And in my experience, they don't learn these words from books, they learn it from the people around them, their parents and other adults. Something happens and we grumble that we HATE it when that happens.

To this I get the reply from somebody who thinks she is normal (she said that!) and HER toddler doesn't say hate because even though "of course she says it" she's a grown-up and doesn't say it to him.

Four year olds aren't toddlers. Aside from the fact that few parents really do say "I hate this" to their children (under their breath around their kids is sufficient), four year olds aren't toddlers. Her kid, judging from her recent reviews, has just started potty training. He's not four years old.

Which means that in another two years, her kid is going to start shocking her with his language. She's got some time for him to do that! The question is, at that point, will she remember my comment about her kid not being in the potty-mouth stage yet?

A word to the wise: If the kids in your life are not yet a certain age, when you see kids of that age acting out, or hear people talking about it like it's normal, don't assume that those people are just nuts. They might be, of course, but it's very likely that you just don't know anything about it yet.

Also, be prepared for the fuckin' fours. Oy vey.

Comments

[kyrielle]

Yup. Also, babies don't generally interact with each other much. Toddlers vary in that regard. But at some point, this kid she "never" used that word with will learn it from peers, if not from her. Unless so completely isolated he can't socialize, anyway.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

"A word to the wise: If the kids in your life are not yet a certain age, when you see kids of that age acting out, or hear people talking about it like it's normal, don't assume that those people are just nuts. They might be, of course, but it's very likely that you just don't know anything about it yet."

I'll agree with this with a qualification: yeah, certain kinds of acting-out are standard for certain ages, but a great deal of the acting-out one sees is due to the grown-ups not knowing how to deal with normal (if irritating) childish behavior.

Yeah, four-year-olds like to say "hate", and if they've been exposed to the word, a lot of them will say "fuck" too. The answer to "I hate you!" is "I see that you're really, really angry with me"; the answer to the F-word is "You may not use that word" (Why?) "Because it's inappropriate." Acting shocked or outraged will only reward the behavior. The answer to deliberate nasty talk is "I'll listen to you when you can speak politely" followed by banishment from the conversation.

However, 'hate' is not a dirty word, and hatred is an emotion children feel a lot more often that adults like to acknowledge, so it is a good idea to talk about the word, and also about the differences between actual hatred and anger, frustration, rejection, jealousy, etc. How can a person learn to manage her emotions unless she can name them accurately?

[conuly]

How can a person learn to manage her emotions unless she can name them accurately?

Exactly. It really bugs me that these people are effectively trying to reduce their kids' vocabulary, and for what? Because they arbitrarily would rather they use "don't like" instead? Well, then, what shades the difference between not liking spinach and adamantly HATING the people who are making you eat it? (Albeit probably for not a very long period of time.)

Acting shocked or outraged will only reward the behavior.

That's what I figure. We tell them to use their words, and then when they try it out, boy does it ever have a big effect! I figure that in the long run it's really not any worse than any other misbehavior. Better than some - nothing's getting broken!

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

True that; nothing's getting broken, nobody's getting hurt. The only thing wrong with swear words and potty talk is that they're socially inappropriate, and using them may cause other people to think ill of you.

I'm adamantly opposed to making children eat anything. The food is the food; eat or starve; dessert comes after supper, not instead of... but if they don't want to eat, it's their choice. The world will not end nor will they die of malnutrition if they don't eat the spinach.

[conuly]

Mostly agreed on not making them eat anything (although I do insist that the nieces eat two bites of food at every meal. This way, if they're on a no-eating jag I can at least reassure myself that they've ingested more than air and water under my watch. It's probably not fair, but I doubt two bites twice a day will damage them psychologically), but of course if you put it in front of them some kids will be all "Oh, you meanie" even if you don't say a word.

[ncp.livejournal.com]

Wait... it doesn't get better after the threenager stage? I'm gonna have to deal with the F**kin' Fours ON TOP OF the current baby-induced behavior regression?

[conuly]

Yup. But if it's any consolation, I found that behavior overall improved even though creative cursing increased. And five was just awesome... well, for Ana. Eva finally hit her terrible twos then. Nobody understands when it's, like, her first year of tantrums ever, they just assume it's been ongoing.