Trying to get back into the swing of posting.

[conuly]

Firstly, let me just give this a resounding WTF?

In other news, this person wants information about traditional Thanksgiving foods. We're all MORE than happy to help... and I managed to get into a flame war about the definition of the word yam.

Well, I tried not to. I said sorry, I pointed out it's my own personal pet peeve (yams! They're African! You can't (easily) get them over here! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AS SWEET POTATOES!), and I posted a few explanatory links...

but when the person I'm talking to goes "In America we, as Americans, call them yams" I have to point out that I, in fact, have been an American all my life, have lived here all my life, and only see them (mis)labeled "yams" in the supermarket (the same place that sells "wanuts", "peers", and "apels", so I don't take this very seriously) sometimes (probably due to dialectical variation). Most of the time they're labeled "small" and "large" sweet potatoes. And I certainly do not call them yams.

The yam issue is kinda like the robin issue. Settlers from England saw these birds kinda like their robins, didn't see their robins, and so decided to call these new birds "robins" just for the heck of it. Now we distinguish them by calling them "American" robins and "English" robins. Similarly, slaves from Africa saw these tubers kinda like their yams, didn't see their yams, and decided to call these new tubers "yams" for lack of a better term. Which is all well and good until a new wave of immigrants from Africa (and apparently the West Indies) hits and they bring real yams with them! I'd be happy to call them "American" yams and "African" yams (it's not like sweet potatoes are really just "sweet" potatoes either!) but to just use the term "yam" bugs me.

Comments

[steorra]

I'm aware that there's a difference between North American "yams" and true African yams, but I call the North American ones yams anyways because that's the name I grew up with, and in my mind, "yams" are the orange ones while sweet potatoes are whitish/yellowish. I recognize that there's a logic to restricting the name "yam" to the African variety, but I'm probably not going to change the terminology I use.

[conuly]

And I don't actually expect anybody to.

I do expect them not to basically accuse me of being un-American.

[steorra]

It's interesting to me as a Canadian how significant the concept "un-American" is in American culture/discourse. I suppose there are things in Canada that get talked about as "un-Canadian" sometimes, but it's not nearly as high-profile a concept.

[conuly]

Well, she didn't say I was un-American. That would've just been WTF. She said that "here in America we say..." and went on from there, which just annoyed me. If somebody in a conversation with you went "Here in Canada...." you'd probably be annoyed too!

[steorra]

Oh, sorry, yes, I totally agree that it would be annoying, and I wasn't trying to question that.

Your mention of un-American just caught my attention and I went on a bit of a tangent about something that struck me as interesting that I hadn't noticed before.

[leora.livejournal.com]

One of the things I dislike about these sorts of confusions and conflations is that sometimes you meet people who have food allergies, and then the distinctions suddenly become very important. Generally the allergies are by species or by genus or otherwise relevant to the actual biology (allergies very rarely follow linguistic patterns, but very often follow biological ones). So, you get people who are allergic to tree nuts, but not peanuts or are allergic to peanuts but not nuts. You get people who are allergic to nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes, bell peppers, etc.), but not sweet potatoes.

Knowing these differences can be very helpful when you're trying to get the details right and properly accommodate and not harm a friend. And it's easier if society keeps the boundaries clearer generally.

Unfortunately, language does not tend to follow patterns based on accuracy, sensibility, or practicality.

[conuly]

The other problem with peanuts specifically is that "goober" is much more fun to say.

Goodness how delicious, eating goober peas!

(Yes, that's a wildly inappropriate change of pace from life-threatening illness.)

[leora.livejournal.com]

While I have heard the term, it simply is not in my dialect. I would never naturally say that.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

I don't know if what I call yams are what Africans call yams, but I know there is a difference between yams and sweet potatoes. They are labelled as such in the stores. One of them has yellow flesh and the other has sort of pinkish flesh.

[conuly]

Trouble is that those are both different varieties of sweet potato.

It's like saying that red apples are apples, but granny smiths are pears.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

That would explain why they seem so similar even though they are labelled as different products.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Tangentially, I adore the dryer, yellow-fleshed type and don't care so much for the orangey, moist type.

Funny thing, down South (where I bought a 25-pound bag of sweet potatos for $14) they didn't call them yams at all. They're all just sweet 'tatos, and if you want to know how they cook up you ask what kind, and the seller tells you "Beauregard" or "White Lady" or whatever.

[conuly]

Up here, the only people I know who call them yams are those with some form of Southern roots - not necessarily them, but their parents or grandparents are from down South.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

It's probably a regional thing--I was in MS for all my tuber-related discussions, after all, and it's entirely possible that in GA they do call them yams.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

"That's the most ridiculous story I've ever heard," said the king.
"Absurd!" his stool said. "Imagine, a talking yam!"

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

My parents were Nebraskans, and called them 'sweet potatoes'. I've lived in California, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Washington state, and almost always heard them called 'sweet potatoes'.

However, my first husband's family was from Texas and Kentucky, and I'm thinking some of them did make "candied yams' as they called them, for holiday dinners. Don't know if it was actual yams or just sweet potatoes, but I'm guessing the latter.

*grins* That which we call a yam, by any other name would taste as sweet. Especially with little marshmallows. There's no rule against calling the things 'yams', but they really aren't actual yams, and I think only a minority in this country do call them that.