Okay, I'm gonna need some help here.

[conuly]

It's like banging my head against a wall, but more painful. And if I'm going to keep wasting my time on this futile effort, I could at least get a little company there.

I mean, I'm not wrong, am I? My facts aren't wrong, are they? My thoughts aren't missing a crucial point, are they? This person IS being willfully annoying, right?

HELP ME OUT HERE I FEEL SO ALONE.

Also, I didn't know this as I don't really follow celebrity anything (I'm lucky if I know who a certain star IS, much less what they've done and why people care) or watch many movies or TV shows (I do watch TV, of course, but I seem to limit myself to three or four shows. If I add a new one, an old one inevitably drops off my list), but I'm realizing it now by looking at these pictures...

WOW does that girl look like her dad. Will Smith? HIS DAUGHTER LOOKS JUST LIKE HIM.

It's sorta creepy to look at, but I'm sure as she gets older it'll be more her face and less her dad as a young girl. (Kinda like a kid down her block who looks spookily like her grandmother... or she did at four. Creepy seeing a four year old who looks like a 50 year old woman, but now that she's 12 even though her face hasn't changed, it looks like HER instead of her grandma.)

Comments

[dragonwolf]

First, I want to beat her over the head with her own cell phone. "lol" cannot be interchanged with a period, and she just in general comes off as a bimbo.

That said, I think they should cast a black actress for the part, because that's how the book describes her, and, therefore, the qualifying actress should follow suit. I've seen Eragon fans go foam-mouthed like rabid dogs because Arya's hair was the wrong color. And don't get me started with Harry Potter or LOTR fans.

And about The Last Airbender, has that OP even seen the TV show? If you want to get technical, Katara and Sukko would be better played by Inuit, not Japanese/Asian, given both the show's characters' features and their geographical location of origin, and both Aang and Toph are actually quite pale (and pale enough that a white person can feasibly play them). Then, there's also the fact that Asian people generally don't really look like anime people, since one characteristic of the anime style is that the characters are often deliberately drawn to not display a nationality/ethnicity. And just because it's an anime style (A:TLA is actually American made), doesn't mean the characters have to be, or even are, Japanese or Asian.

As for the supposed lack of non-white actors in TV and film, I can't help but wonder where that one comes from. Perhaps it's just the shows and movies I watch, and perhaps I'm willing to accept a smaller percentage in a given feature than they are, but I've seen no shortage of non-white (and specifically black) people in movies and TV, and not just in secondary or villain roles (and what's so wrong about being a villain, particularly when there seems to be no issue when the villain is white, or male in the case of people complaining about the lack of "strong female characters"). Hell, in Bruce Almighty and its sequel, a black man played God, you can't really get much more "important good guy" than that (no, he technically didn't have a huge part, but without God, the whole movie falls apart).

[dragonwolf]

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying discrimination doesn't exist. I just don't think it exists to the extent that some groups of people think it does. It's the whole "seek and you shall find" thing - if you look for discrimination everywhere, then it will be everywhere.

[conuly]

Alternatively, if you assume there is nothing, you won't see what's right there in front of you.

Now I really want to look into movie roles. That shouldn't be too hard, just time-consuming.

[dragonwolf]

Then don't assume anything, find out the real facts about why something is done the way it's done.

In the article you linked the other day about "colorblind" vs "value-diversity" teaching, the ambiguous example is a prime example of this (and, obviously, is precisely why it was the ambiguous test). The "value-diversity" people assume the person didn't invite the other because of racism, while the "colorblind" side didn't make that assumption. In a real life situation like that, as a third party, I would have confronted the person and asked them why they didn't invite the other. For all we know, it would have nothing to do with race and the kid that wasn't invited was just a jerk that the other didn't want around, but because the two have different colored skin, many people automatically jump to the conclusion that the one throwing the party was just being a racist bastard, which in a large number of cases, leads to them dismissing any explanation given to them by the party thrower, no matter how valid. In many conversations, once you're labeled a racist or xenophobe, no amount of anything will make the labelers see you as otherwise.

[conuly]

As for the supposed lack of non-white actors in TV and film, I can't help but wonder where that one comes from.

Earthsea. And Friends, come to think of it. Oh, and how about Castle - two black characters, one of whom barely gets any screentime at all, though you're always gonna find a black murder suspect running around picking pockets. Psych - one black character. 5 - 7 white main characters, one black character. No Hispanics (excepting in that one novela ep) and they make up 30% of the population in Santa Barbara!

Now, this study says there are a lot of African-Americans on TV (not in the movies, that's a separate issue) but that they're not well-represented.

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/4426

http://www.c3.ucla.edu/newsstand/art/prime-time-televisions-black-and-white-world/ (This seems to be the same study written differently?)

I can't find the same sorts of percentages on movies via google, but there is this: http://www.8asians.com/2010/06/25/racebending-releases-report-on-the-true-diversity-in-paramount-pictures-films/

Thing is, when I see movies, I rarely see movies with non-white protagonists. And while we all say there's no small parts, only small actors, it's a bit much to expect people to ONLY accept second billing.

and what's so wrong about being a villain, particularly when there seems to be no issue when the villain is white, or male in the case of people complaining about the lack of "strong female characters

Nothing. IF you have an opportunity to be MORE than the villain.

When available roles for your race are limited and stereotyped, then we have a problem. When the only role with an Asian actor in a movie is as a villain, and the only role for several movies is as the villain or maybe as a ultra-studious kid or a martial arts mogul, then there's a problem. It's not like being the villain this one time is bad, it's that it's again and again and again.

And yes, it's fair to say "It's not THIS movie, it's the trend it shows" because otherwise people say "God, what's wrong with that? You wouldn't complain if it was a white man as a villain, what do you even WANT?"

Hell, in Bruce Almighty and its sequel, a black man played God, you can't really get much more "important good guy" than that (no, he technically didn't have a huge part, but without God, the whole movie falls apart).

Let's see what TVTropes says about this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BruceAlmighty

"# Magical Negro: Morgan Freeman as God. 'Nuff said.

* Anything with Morgan Freeman will have him as the Magical Negro. "

Magical what-now? Let's click the link, see the description for that trope.

"In order to show the world that minority characters are not bad people, one will step forward to help a "normal" person, with their pure heart and Closer To Earth wisdom. They are from a minority that is discriminated against, physically or mentally disabled, or social outcasts (drifters, the homeless, ex-cons). They step (often clad in a clean, white suit) into the life of the central character (often white, American and racist) and, in some way, enrich the central character's life.

While this can work as a plea for tolerance, or simply An Aesop about not dismissing people just because they're different, it's all too easy to go too far and make them into an all-knowing Mary Sue or pseudo-narrator whose magical minority-powers save the day. It also tends to raise the question that if the Magical Negro (more commonly called the Magic Negro, and sometimes the Mystical Negro) is so powerful and intelligent, why is he never saving the day, himself, instead of helping the mainstream hero to get all the glory. Also, quite often he's just ditched or even killed after he's fulfilled his purpose for the plot. This is Hand Waved as the Magical Negro is selfless and wants to help those who need guidance.

If the Magical Negro is from a society of Noble Savages, expect an Anvilicious Aesop about the failings of the society which protagonist comes from - which usually leads to the protagonist 'going native' and ending up better at everything than his Magical Negro mentor.

The reason the Magical Negro is problematic is because it is a moral and artistic shortcut, replacing a genuine moral message with a well-intentioned but patronizing homage to the special gifts of the meek. A Magical Negro is never a main character; he never uses his magical powers to accomplish his own goals, only to glorify the white protagonist. "

Example? Bruce/Evan Almighty films, where the main character is a selfish white guy who needs Magical Negro assistance to find wisdom.

Making Morgan Freeman God would be more interesting if Morgan Freeman didn't go around doing nothing but helping white guys (even in Earthsea, for crying out loud) in every movie he's in.

[dragonwolf]

And yet, had they cast a white man for God, people would have bitched something along the line of "why does God have to be white?" Just like The Last Airbender would have been added to the list of "martial arts movies" that people complain Asians are only in, had Asians been cast.

As for movies and TV shows with non-white protagonists that are more than just "the magical negro"? Off the top of my head, from what I've personally watched or at least know about:

24 (not one, but two black Presidents, before Obama's election, and both with balls (unlike the one white male President); a female President as well)
Stand and Deliver (majority Hispanic cast)
Lean on Me (majority black cast)
Stargate SG-1 (entire black race, black SG-1 team member, guest actors of various, including Asian, races)
Family Matters (black cast)
Criminal Minds (black BAU agent, almost never a non-white antagonist)
Law & Order: SVU (black detective, Asian psychologist, almost never a non-white antagonist)
Sister Sister (black cast)
Smart Guy (black cast)
Slumdog Millionaire (Indian cast)
Reading Rainbow (black host)
Blade (black title character)
Shaft (black title character)
The Matrix (several non-white keystone characters, the Oracle's standing as "magic negro" notwithstanding, she's not the only non-white character)
Catwoman (black, female title character)
I Am Legend (new one, black main characters)
Dr. Dolittle (new ones, black main characters)
Radio (black main character)
Remember the Titans (black main characters)
Drumline (mostly black cast)
The Color of Friendship (black main characters)
House (black and, for a time, Indian, main characters)
Numb3rs (several different ethnicities, including Hungarian Jewish and Indian)

Like I said, perhaps it's just the stuff I happen to watch, and/or that I value supporting roles as much as lead roles, unlike most other people.

Psych - one black character. 5 - 7 white main characters, one black character.

Technically speaking, that's pretty proportionally accurate for blacks (remember, the original argument I was protesting to was that blacks are under-represented, per the post you linked to). One in seven is 14%, which falls about into the overall American population distribution. Could there be more characters that are neither black nor white? Certainly, particularly with the setting of the show (I don't watch it, so I don't know much about it).

Could there be improvement? Certainly, I'd love to see more Hispanic, Asian, and Indian/Middle Eastern characters that aren't gangmembers, Karate masters, terrorists, or other stereotype.

The issue I see with the whole "there isn't enough diversity" thing, regardless of whether it's non-white characters or "strong female" characters, is that there are a fairly large number of cases where the characters appear to fit the bill of what people want, but then the group picks apart what's wrong with the character ("stereotyped," "ghettofied," "too white," "magic negro," etc). My question, then, is what would the desired non-white-male character be like? And I'm looking for specifics, not just "not X character" or "not stereotyped," and yes, it's an honest question, not one to just be antagonistic. If G.I. Jane, or Derek Morgan, or Jaime Escalante aren't good enough to be recognized, then what is?

While I concede that God was a "magical negro" character (as it was never expanded in either movie), the issue I have with some of the supposed "magical negro" roles the article mentions (such as Freeman's role in Batman Begins), is that the character is only a "magical negro" because the person happens to be black. If the character didn't exist, the main character would have to fill the role, and thus become a Mary Sue. If the character still existed, but was white (as any other race would also fall under the "magical [insert race here]" label), there would be an uproar about the lack of cast diversity. To expand on the Batman Begins example, if Lucius Fox didn't exist, it would mean Batman would have to build his own car, his own suit, and his own weapons and gadgets, thus making him not only a privileged, rich, white guy by day and superhero by night, but also one who could somehow have the time to come up with and build all his toys, engineer a cure for Scarecrow's poison (while under its effects, no less), and cover his tracks (both personally and financially). Oh, and somewhere in there, actually find time to sleep. Also, Fox is expanded upon in the second movie, as his role of Batman's behind-the-scenes "partner in crime" becomes more refined (since Batman Begins is pretty much an introductory movie for Batman, himself). We're also talking about trying to build a two-hour movie from a comic book franchise/mythos over half a century in the making.

[conuly]

Stargate SG-1 (entire black race, black SG-1 team member, guest actors of various, including Asian, races)

A race of slaves that needs human help. Yeah....

As far as Sister, Sister; Family Matters; etc. - this was addressed in at least one of the links. African-Americans are disproportionately represented on sitcoms... but fairly isolated TO sitcoms and ON sitcoms. You don't see many diverse casts in sitcomland.

My question, then, is what would the desired non-white-male character be like?

They should be interesting. I can't say "They should be this or that" because that depends on the part, the story, the whole shebang. But unless there's nothing BUT trite stock characters, we should see somebody we can believe in as a real person. It's a pity this isn't easy, but it's... well, it's not easy.

[dragonwolf]

A race of slaves that needs human help. Yeah....

1. They also fought for themselves, doing most of the fighting. Even the Americans had help from other countries in the American Revolution.
2. The humans weren't all-powerful themselves and regularly depended on other races, including the Jaffa, to maintain their own freedom.

As far as Sister, Sister; Family Matters; etc. - this was addressed in at least one of the links. African-Americans are disproportionately represented on sitcoms... but fairly isolated TO sitcoms and ON sitcoms. You don't see many diverse casts in sitcomland.

On the same token, sitcoms make up a good chunk of TV. You yourself mentioned Friends, which last I checked was considered a sitcom. That said, I'm of the opinion that sitcoms have their own unique values. They are like court jesters in that they can teach valuable lessons or approach taboo subjects and get away with it, because they make their audience laugh. Of course, the ones I mentioned have been in syndication for about 15 years now, and I don't really watch the new ones, so that very likely might have changed with new ones (which wouldn't surprise me, as I'm also of the opinion that TV quality has severely degraded over the past couple of decades). But then, I also think rather differently than most of the people I know. *shrug*

And just for a random thought, why didn't the writers of shows like Family Matters ever do other (mainstream) black-casted shows? Family Matters used to be on ABC's coveted "TGIF" lineup.