conuly: Picture of a young River Tam. Quote: Independent thought, independent lives, independent dreams (independent)
[personal profile] conuly
Ana had a worksheet on verbs for today, the first one I've seen her do.

This is what it says at the top: "A verb tells what people or things do. More generally, a verb tells the action a noun or pronoun does."

1. Ana does not admit to any firm knowledge of what nouns or pronouns are, mind, but it's a subject we can work on.

2. This is far from the best definition of "verb" I've ever seen... but for first graders just beginning to learn this sort of thing, it probably doesn't matter. Except...

3. They were supposed to underline the verbs in various different sentences. And in each sentence, afterwards, we were helpfully told how many verbs were in the sentence. And almost all the verbs that Ana was supposed to identify weren't "action" verbs!

Has to (where dollars to doughnuts she's only supposed to identify "has", although the has in "she has a bed" is very different from the has in "she has to go to bed", which is the sentence she had), is (several times), will be (this is two verbs, of course), be, was.... Do and did I guess imply some action, but really, is a beginner gonna pick up on them?

Worse, some of the sentences had words that are verbs in ONE context, but not in others - "the play" and "be quiet".

The sample sentence lists "can" as a verb. Tell me, what sort of action is implied by "can"? If you're going to have them jump in with helping verbs and various conjugations of "to be", give them a better definition than "it tells what people or things do". Because when you do that, kids expect, well, to see things being done!

Instead of bothering about that, which didn't make sense to her, I told her that a verb can come after "I" or "she", and that if it comes right after "the", "a", or "an" it's probably safe to say it's not a verb. (Let's not talk about gerunds and all, okay?)
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Date: 2010-06-04 03:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
Auxiliary and modal verbs do not define actions. Here is a good site, Learn English (http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/verbaux.htm), in case Ana's teacher would like to do so.

Is she making these lessons up herself, or getting them out of a book? Y'know, this really reminds me of John Gatto's assertions about the systematic class-structure agenda of the public-school systems. Consider: this lesson sets children up to fail unless they have help at home from an adult who already understands verbs, because the instructions are misleading.

It does matter if first-graders are given bad definitions, because first definitions are the ones that stick in the mind, even if they are not consciously recalled. They're the foundation, and if the foundation is shaky, not much can be built upon it.

The best way I know to teach kids about the parts of speech is through Mad Libs (http://www.synergyfield.com/mad.asp), and there's a ton of them online. Enjoy! :)

Date: 2010-06-05 12:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
"I told her outright that the assignment was badly written, there was NO WAY she could've done it with the information she's supposed to have had. Because she was getting every. one. wrong. Of course she was! And I don't want her thinking it's her fault, because it's so not."

That is so, so important. It's difficult for children to grasp the fact that often they're having a hard time because the grown-ups who were supposed to be helping them either didn't know how or couldn't be bothered. They tend to think grown-ups know everything, and actually live by the principles they espouse, and adults are tacitly expected to foster these notions.

What I wonder: how many of the kids in Ana's class also got every. one. wrong. and do think it's their fault, think that they're 'stupid' for not comprehending what they were supposed to do? Worse yet, how many of their parents will look at that assignment, fail to comprehend it, and have their own childhood "I Hate Grammar!" issues triggered like pop-up ads?

Sheesh, it's almost like in Brave New World, where the babies crawl toward the lovely books and are just beginning to enjoy them, when the strip of floor they're sitting on is electrified. The idea is supposed to be to encourage children to like writing, to find it fun and natural, and feel confident in their ability to learn to do it well - not to discourage them by making it a tedious chore full of hidden traps.

Tell you what; a teacher who wants to encourage good writing doesn't have to do much. Assign them to write at least half a page per day on any topic they think worth reading about, so that they write it as well as they're able, in terms of both technical skills and literary style. Provide them with resources, both hard-copy and online, that clearly explain the technicalities of style and usage, and show them how to refer to them as needed. Read to them every day from good writing of all different varieties, and talk with them about what makes it good. Turn them on to all your favorite books, and anything else they might find interesting.

That's pretty much 'it'. And to hell with all 'workbooks', sez me; way to make an otherwise-fascinating subject deadly dull.

Date: 2010-06-05 01:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
I think it's reasonable for the schools to presume that they're teaching SAE whether or not the local kids speak it at home, because in the academic and professional realms, the inability to speak and write it fluently is a serious liability. Children can certainly learn more than one dialect.

True enough, though, they ought not to be told that their original dialect is wrong, and definitely not encouraged to go around correcting their elders. School-talk is for school, and that's the place to speak it; people at home are not obliged to do so.

Date: 2010-06-04 05:13 am (UTC)
siderea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] siderea
In the midst of all of this, there came a vivid example of the kind of thing we say in school that makes no sense, that only bewilders and confuses the thoughtful child who tries to make sense of it.

The teacher, whose specialty, by the way, was English, had told these children that a verb is a word of action -- which is not always true. One of the words she asked was "dream." She was thinking of the noun and apparently did not remember that "dream" can as easily be a verb. One little boy, making a pure guess, said it was a verb. Here the teacher, to be helpful, contributed one of those "explanations" that are so much more hindrance than help. She said, "But a verb has to have action; can you give me a sentence, using 'dream', that has action?" The child thought a bit, and said, "I had a dream about the Trojan War."

Now it's pretty had to get much more action that that. But the teacher told him he was wrong, and he sat silent, with an utterly baffled and frightened expression on his face. She was so busy thinking about what she wanted him to say, she was so obsessed with that right answer hidden in her mind, that she could not think about what he was really saying and thinking, could not see that his reasoning was logical and that the mistake was not his, but hers.
John Holt. 1964. Published in the Owosso Argus-Press Dec 7; and in How Children Fail.

Date: 2010-06-04 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
Yay, mighty John Holt! Y'know what, I first read How Children Fail in about 1967, because my parents had it (on account of me) and I kiped it. (I always kiped all their Child Psychology books, so I'd know what they were up to.) I was in 4th or 5th grade at the time, attending a real prison-camp of a New Jersey public school, and it totally validated my perception that School was Seriously Fucked Up.

I'd had that perception for several years, actually - in third grade I'd determined to become a teacher because I was certain I could do a better job than was being done to me - but John Holt was the first grown-up who ever admitted it was true, and explained why. He's up there on my Childhood Heroes list, along with Vance Packard, Thomas Szasz, Robert A. Heinlein and Henry David Thoreau.

Of course, when I actually became a teacher, I quickly found out that I couldn't do a much better job than was done to me, because the system was set up to herd children, not to teach them. So I jumped ship, went over to Alternative Education, found it not much better but at least with room for improvement. LOL, here in my 'advanced late youth' I guess I've become an UnSchooler in principle, though in practice I acknowledge that UnSchooling only works well in an enriched environment.

What would really work would be if we could provide every child with an enriched environment, and there certainly has been some progress made in that direction, but a lot more is needed.

Ever think, if we could get just one generation of children reared on this planet, who had all had their primary needs adequately met, we'd be good to go for the rest of our species' lifespan.

Date: 2010-06-05 05:53 am (UTC)
siderea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] siderea
Yeah, John Holt and A.S. Neill are is substantial part why I am not dead. I came after you. I read HCF when I was in fifth or sixth grade, so I was reading his commentary about fifth grade math classes while I was pretty much in one; that would have been 1981.

As to unschooling and enrichment, I am possessed of the radical notion that we wouldn't need enrichment if we somehow meaningfully reintegrated children into our societies. Their environments are only impoverished because we put them in artificially impoverished environments. But that's a pretty tall order.

Ever think, if we could get just one generation of children reared on this planet, who had all had their primary needs adequately met, we'd be good to go for the rest of our species' lifespan.

Yes, often. The great bootstrapping problem.

Date: 2010-06-05 05:33 pm (UTC)
siderea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] siderea
Doesn't actually solve the problem though: who would staff the lab? And how would they know how to raise those children correctly?

A generation raised (successfully!) in a lab would only know how to raise their children... in a lab. Societal solutions require societal interventions.

Date: 2010-06-05 05:46 pm (UTC)
siderea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] siderea
Everybody thinks they know how to raise children correctly. That's why people keep having kids.

I thought it was because sex feels good, babies are cute, and they want to be loved unconditionally.

Date: 2010-06-04 05:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com
Ozarque posted an online English text by linguistic principles.

I wonder if an early grade child could deal with 'a verb tells you when'. That is, a verb is the word that can carry a time marker, such as -ed (past), -s (present), or will (future).

Date: 2010-06-04 08:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dandelion.livejournal.com
That sounds problematic - if you said to me "which class of words 'tells you when'?", I'd reply "temporal adverb".

Date: 2010-06-04 06:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sayga.livejournal.com
Wow, that homework does sound obnoxious. An introduction to verbs should be simple, and that is much more advanced identification. Just like when you're learning nouns, you start with physical stuff and then move on to liberty, love or other ideas that are nouns, but harder to grasp as such.

There was this awesome little poem I had to memorize as a kid. I can't remember the rest of it though!

A verb means action, something done
To read, to write, to skip or run.

A preposition shows relation,
as IN the street or AT the station.

Date: 2010-06-04 06:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sayga.livejournal.com
OMG, I actually found it online. I'd looked once, a long time ago, and found nothing.

http://www.happychild.org.uk/acc/tpr/mne/0011gram.htm

THE PARTS OF SPEECH

Every name is called a NOUN,
As field and fountain, street and town;

In place of noun the PRONOUN stands
As he and she can clap their hands;

The ADJECTIVE describes a thing,
As magic wand and bridal ring;

The VERB means action, something done -
To read, to write, to jump, to run;

How things are done, the ADVERBS tell,
As quickly, slowly, badly, well;

The PREPOSITION shows relation,
As in the street, or at the station;

CONJUNCTIONS join, in many ways,
Sentences, words, or phrase and phrase;

The INTERJECTION cries out, 'Hark!
I need an exclamation mark!'

Through Poetry, we learn how each
of these make up THE PARTS OF SPEECH.

Date: 2010-06-04 08:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
Wow, I love this; thanks for posting it!
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Date: 2010-06-04 09:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
I would, if the instructions were to find all the verbs, but those were not the instructions. The instruction define a verb specifically as an action verb, and 'has' cannot function as an action verb, ever, in any sentence.

*wry grin* Yes, I was a burden and a trial to many of my teachers, and an even worse one to some of my daughter's teachers. It's no wonder to me that the children of this country do so poorly in school, when the people hired to instruct them don't even understand the subjects they're purportedly teaching.

I'd like to see every teacher, legislator, judge and government administrator in this country walk in to work the first day after Labor Day, to find that - surprise! - they're all going to be taking the SATs. What, no preparation-time? Why should there be? Haven't they all taken that test before? Should be a piece of cake for them then, shouldn't it? Post the scores on a national website so we can all see how the system's working; that should prove very educational indeed.

Date: 2010-06-04 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elenbarathi.livejournal.com
Sheesh, you live in one of the world's largest, most culturally- and linguistically-diverse cities - do the schools take no cognizance at all of the fact that people from different linguistic backgrounds pronounce most of their vowels and many of their consonants differently?

Texans pronounce pin and pen the same (to a non-Texan ear at least; maybe other Texans can tell which word is intended without contextual clues.) Puerto Ricans pronounce sin and seen the same. Southerners pronounce been and bin the same. Arabic speakers pronounce bin and pin the same. There isn't any standard or consensus in English As She Is Actually Spoken about how to pronounce them; the language is just too large and too widespread: everybody has a regional accent of some sort.

When I moved here to Washington after 10 years in Ohio, I was astonished to realize how much of an Ohio accent I'd picked up, and the way I realized it was through listening to my first class of Washingtonian preschoolers. Harder to hear the differences in adult speech; adults come from too many different places and have had too many 'external' modifications in their speech through school and the media.

We moved from California to New Jersey when I was 9, and while I could understand the adults fairly well, it took weeks before I could understand the other kids: they spoke twice as fast as me, but with only half the consonants, and with everything heavily nasalised so that all their vowels sounded like different vowels. If some linguist had been recording our speech phonetically, it might have come out looking almost like two different languages.

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