Re-reading Heroes of the Valley

[conuly]

Really good book, although I don't think the ending hangs together as well as it might have. I can think of at least three better ways for the ending to have twisted. Oh well.

Now, over on Amazon, the top review of this book states that there's an "interesting lack of religion or spirituality" to this book. (I gotta say, I get a little tired of books where the gods are DEFINITELY real, and meddling in every niggling affair too. Hilari Bell is a good one for that - gods in her books are either explicitly dead, or distant from human affairs, or, at the very least, the main character is personally atheist (and the good guys aren't shocked or surprised at this revelation, even if they disagree), though when you read all her books in a marathon session that starts to be just as noticeable!)

I replied stating - and no spoilers here - that I didn't see it quite that way. The people's stories about their hallowed ancestors, and the various superstitions regarding the dangerous trow seem to fill the spot of religion for them. To which he replied that well, they don't worship their ancestors, so it's not quite the same thing.

Fair point, but it got me thinking - what is required to call a belief a religious belief? Wikipedia is ABSOLUTELY no help here. Lots of interesting information, but not helpful at all. (Well, that's always the way, isn't it?) Religious Tolerance isn't much better. What do you think?

Comments

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

When I took a class "Religion and Science", religion got definied in the beginning of the class. The part I recall most clearly is that there have to be a god or gods to worship or it is not religion, even if it is full of ritual and moral compass-basing. Therefore, Buddhism may *appear* to be a religion from the outside, but since Buddha is not seen as a god, it is not.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

When Lord of the Rings first came out, some reviewers including Lin Carter complained that fantasy worlds needed to have a God/god/gods somewhere, and/or religion in the sense of temples, clergy, or at least a stated, overtly practiced belief system, and the lack of these made Middle-earth feel unrealistic to them. You even heard this after The Silmarillion came out.

Tolkien explained this in his letters. He didn't want to have a belief system as such. Eru and the Ainu and the Valar and so forth were not only real, but everybody knew what had happened; it was relatively recent history and they still had Elves, and Numenoreans like Aragorn wandering around. I bet the guy who wrote this book was thinking the same way, or trying to.

[conuly]

Lin Carter is a twit, whoever s/he is. Seriously.

[leora.livejournal.com]

That's interesting. Thinking about it, I think religion tends to require submission to a higher power. A belief that you should not run your own life, but should live your life for the sake of a being more powerful than you.

[conuly]

How higher should that power be?

[leora.livejournal.com]

Hmm, no my definition has problems. Many early religions did not like their gods. You can hate your gods and worship them purely for fear for your own life or desire for benefits.

[siderea]

Actually, I wrote an essay tackling exactly that.

[conuly]

Thank you. Sorry it took so long to reply :)

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

When I took a class "Religion and Science", religion got definied in the beginning of the class. The part I recall most clearly is that there have to be a god or gods to worship or it is not religion, even if it is full of ritual and moral compass-basing. Therefore, Buddhism may *appear* to be a religion from the outside, but since Buddha is not seen as a god, it is not.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

When Lord of the Rings first came out, some reviewers including Lin Carter complained that fantasy worlds needed to have a God/god/gods somewhere, and/or religion in the sense of temples, clergy, or at least a stated, overtly practiced belief system, and the lack of these made Middle-earth feel unrealistic to them. You even heard this after The Silmarillion came out.

Tolkien explained this in his letters. He didn't want to have a belief system as such. Eru and the Ainu and the Valar and so forth were not only real, but everybody knew what had happened; it was relatively recent history and they still had Elves, and Numenoreans like Aragorn wandering around. I bet the guy who wrote this book was thinking the same way, or trying to.

[conuly]

Lin Carter is a twit, whoever s/he is. Seriously.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

We included this opinion (differently worded, of course) in a college English essay on Tolkien and cultural attitudes.

[leora.livejournal.com]

That's interesting. Thinking about it, I think religion tends to require submission to a higher power. A belief that you should not run your own life, but should live your life for the sake of a being more powerful than you.

[conuly]

How higher should that power be?

[leora.livejournal.com]

Hmm, no my definition has problems. Many early religions did not like their gods. You can hate your gods and worship them purely for fear for your own life or desire for benefits.

[siderea]

Actually, I wrote an essay tackling exactly that.

[conuly]

Thank you. Sorry it took so long to reply :)