So, every so often there's a story in the news like this:

[conuly]

This Great, Upstanding Guy has a kid. And he's somewhat involved in the kid's life - the occasional birthday party, presents at Christmas, whatever. How involved depends on the family (and I like to believe that really good fathers never fall into this stupid game), but it's not just a check every month when Mom can make him.

At some point, years after the kid's been around - generally after a divorce - he gets it into his head that it's "not really his kid" and so why should he have to pay? And maybe they do paternity tests and, lo and behold, he's right - Mom was cheating on him at the right time. Whoops. So he won't pay up! Not his kid!

Yeah? Well, fuck you, asshole.

If you're gonna decide that a kid's not yours, you have to make that choice in a reasonable time after the kid's birth - or, for more convoluted cases, after you find out about the child. Once you decide to be a father to this kid, you don't get to take backsies on that. You don't get to be a dad to a kid for seven, eight, nine years, and then up and decide that because things didn't go just your way before the kid was even born that hey, you don't have any obligations anymore, no more trips to the zoo. It doesn't work that way, you already took the responsibility of being a parent, and now? Now you're stuck with it, like it or not.

Because it's not about you and the fact that you couldn't keep your wife/girlfriend/whoever from sleeping around. And it's not about her and the fact that she couldn't be honest with you from the start, either. It's about the kid. And if your kid is stuck with your worthless ass as the only dad s/he's ever known, and you've played that role already? Be an adult, suck it up, and deal. When you signed on to be a parent, part and parcel of that was the fact that from now on, you had to be an Adult. No matter what, gotta be more grown-up than the kids. Even if they're "not really yours", your responsibility is to keep them from thinking it should ever matter.

Man, stories like that piss me the fuck off. (And the fact that this guy's kid is grown up now doesn't make much difference to me.)

Note: I'm not claiming that sleeping around on your husband and lying about the results is a good gameplan. Monogamy means just that. Can't handle it? Don't want to? Marry somebody who doesn't mind, or don't get married at all - or, alternatively, get some self-control for a change. I'm just saying that what's done is done, and it's no good punishing kids because (both!) parents have issues.

Note the second: Yeah, Don't Read The Comments.

Comments

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I'm not gonna clink the link, cos yeah. I HATE that. Why people think it's acceptable to punish kids for the sins of the parents, I just don't know.

[conuly]

Well, it's not really his kid!

Bullshit, is all I have to say on the subject. If your child is old enough to form the word "dada" and look at you, you don't get to deny it any longer. That is what makes you their dad - not the dubious and arbitrary ties of blood. (Conversely, if you fucked somebody eight years ago, and abandoned her with her kid, and now she's made a new life with some other guy and they come to you to sever your parental ties so he can adopt? Be a man and give it up. You'll NEVER get to be that kid's dad now - but if you're really nice, maybe you can be part of his/her life anyway, in some sort of support role.)

[conuly]

Clearly, I have a lot to say on the subject. Sorry for talking to you like we're arguing :)

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Heheh. No problem, I totally understand the rant.

It's kinda like, on a related rant, when some people go on about how women shouldn't be raising children without men -- usually with regard to lesbians who conceive in vitro, or single unwed mothers like myself - and they claim this is a devaluing of fatherhood. My rant is men are the ones who devalue fatherhood. Don't blame the women on their own; blame the men who refuse to take responsibility for their own kids.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Legally, in New Jersey, if the child views you as the father, you are the father. (And if you're married to the child's mother, whether or not the child views you as the father, you're the father.)

That said, I did once do a divorce mediation where they warned me going in that it was likely to be messy because the father's attorney requested it because they'd just found out the six-year-old wasn't his (but the nine-year-old was). And we got into the room and the man was like, "Look, I don't know why we're here, I already told her that of course I'm going to keep treating him as my son no matter what she did to me. You didn't really think I'd want to keep coming to get David for visitation and have to tell Jason he couldn't come with us anymore, did you?!?!" I mean, the father was really insulted. (And, erm, I gather the mother had realized that the husband was a far better man than the younger child's bio-dad and was Very Sorry, but that's another story!)

[conuly]

See, now, that's how people should act. He should have felt insulted - no matter how unpleasant the divorce, there is a basic standard of human behavior that, until proven otherwise, we should assume others will live up to!

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

I should add, though, that NJ's laws can swing too far the other way--a lot of people don't get divorced until they want to remarry, so many of them will have a child with someone else years after they've stopped living with their spouse, and it's a great big hassle for a mother to get her husband's name off the birth certificate and the actual father's name on. And it's even more of a hassle if you get a situation where the mother is no longer with the child's father, either, especially if Welfare gets involved (if a child is on welfare, any non-custodial parent has to partially reimburse the state, so often they'll go after the mother's husband rather than the child's father).

[conuly]

But... that one doesn't make sense.

If Mom knows who the dad is, and Dad knows who dad is, and the husband knows who dad is, and they're willing to put down the actual father's name on the birth certificate, then that should trump "married = fatherhood"... shouldn't it?

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

No. You legally have to put the husband's name on the birth certificate unless you get a court order. Getting said order is a hassle if the real father is there and willing, but nigh unto impossible if not.

[conuly]

Yeah, that's going too far, out of the realm of sense and... uh, sense.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much.

[leora.livejournal.com]

According to the article there are reasons to believe he wasn't fine and upstanding in the first place though. It's not clear, but he may well have been abusive to his wife. And regardless, if your wife is drinking that much that often, how can you not think there are any problems? The problem may or may not be with your relationship, but there is clearly a problem somewhere.

[conuly]

The article is just the prompt. These stories usually present the guy as fine and upstanding. Blech. Fine, upstanding people don't walk out on their responsibilities.

[hopefulnebula]

Reminds me of that anti-adoption woman a few years back who said (only slightly paraphrased) "if I found out my child had been switched at birth, all the love I have for the child I raised would immediately transfer to the child who really was mine."

Seriously. Wha?

[conuly]

Some people don't deserve kids.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

Jessy1019, was it? She's well known around the parenting circles for her crazy, yes consistant!, views on biology and parenting.

[hopefulnebula]

Yeah, that's her. I mean, I know love doesn't work that way, and I'm emotionally colorblind.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

I have mixed views on this. I'm sorry, but child support? Very rarely goes to the support of the kids, and I say this as a woman who gets child support. Often, its used as "OOH EXTRA MONEY" and for splurges (dinner out for all of us, or a new toy for each, etc), and I know a LOT of single mothers that this applies to.

And yet...a man that was lied to for x-amount of years by his ex-whore? IDK if legally he should be required to pay up because the bitch couldn't stay faithful (*raises hand* past unfaithful bitch here. :D) and keep her legs shut. Morally, sure, its shitty to be like "LULZ UR NOT MIEN!" and run out on the kid. But I kinda think the bitch should either find the bio father and make him pay, or STFU and pay the price (of raising the kid sans financial help from not-bio-dad that she slept around on) for being a whore.

I also think that men proven not to be the bio dad should be allowed to continue to visit with the kid if he chooses, but not pay the bitch who whelped said kid for being a whore. AND, I think if a woman knew the man paying her child support wasn't the father (or knew the possibility, didn't tell him, and later he was proved to not be the father), she should have to pay back every single penny he paid out to her.

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I'm not gonna clink the link, cos yeah. I HATE that. Why people think it's acceptable to punish kids for the sins of the parents, I just don't know.

[conuly]

Well, it's not really his kid!

Bullshit, is all I have to say on the subject. If your child is old enough to form the word "dada" and look at you, you don't get to deny it any longer. That is what makes you their dad - not the dubious and arbitrary ties of blood. (Conversely, if you fucked somebody eight years ago, and abandoned her with her kid, and now she's made a new life with some other guy and they come to you to sever your parental ties so he can adopt? Be a man and give it up. You'll NEVER get to be that kid's dad now - but if you're really nice, maybe you can be part of his/her life anyway, in some sort of support role.)

[conuly]

Clearly, I have a lot to say on the subject. Sorry for talking to you like we're arguing :)

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Heheh. No problem, I totally understand the rant.

It's kinda like, on a related rant, when some people go on about how women shouldn't be raising children without men -- usually with regard to lesbians who conceive in vitro, or single unwed mothers like myself - and they claim this is a devaluing of fatherhood. My rant is men are the ones who devalue fatherhood. Don't blame the women on their own; blame the men who refuse to take responsibility for their own kids.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Legally, in New Jersey, if the child views you as the father, you are the father. (And if you're married to the child's mother, whether or not the child views you as the father, you're the father.)

That said, I did once do a divorce mediation where they warned me going in that it was likely to be messy because the father's attorney requested it because they'd just found out the six-year-old wasn't his (but the nine-year-old was). And we got into the room and the man was like, "Look, I don't know why we're here, I already told her that of course I'm going to keep treating him as my son no matter what she did to me. You didn't really think I'd want to keep coming to get David for visitation and have to tell Jason he couldn't come with us anymore, did you?!?!" I mean, the father was really insulted. (And, erm, I gather the mother had realized that the husband was a far better man than the younger child's bio-dad and was Very Sorry, but that's another story!)

[conuly]

See, now, that's how people should act. He should have felt insulted - no matter how unpleasant the divorce, there is a basic standard of human behavior that, until proven otherwise, we should assume others will live up to!

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

I should add, though, that NJ's laws can swing too far the other way--a lot of people don't get divorced until they want to remarry, so many of them will have a child with someone else years after they've stopped living with their spouse, and it's a great big hassle for a mother to get her husband's name off the birth certificate and the actual father's name on. And it's even more of a hassle if you get a situation where the mother is no longer with the child's father, either, especially if Welfare gets involved (if a child is on welfare, any non-custodial parent has to partially reimburse the state, so often they'll go after the mother's husband rather than the child's father).

[conuly]

But... that one doesn't make sense.

If Mom knows who the dad is, and Dad knows who dad is, and the husband knows who dad is, and they're willing to put down the actual father's name on the birth certificate, then that should trump "married = fatherhood"... shouldn't it?

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

No. You legally have to put the husband's name on the birth certificate unless you get a court order. Getting said order is a hassle if the real father is there and willing, but nigh unto impossible if not.

[conuly]

Yeah, that's going too far, out of the realm of sense and... uh, sense.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much.

[leora.livejournal.com]

According to the article there are reasons to believe he wasn't fine and upstanding in the first place though. It's not clear, but he may well have been abusive to his wife. And regardless, if your wife is drinking that much that often, how can you not think there are any problems? The problem may or may not be with your relationship, but there is clearly a problem somewhere.

[conuly]

The article is just the prompt. These stories usually present the guy as fine and upstanding. Blech. Fine, upstanding people don't walk out on their responsibilities.

[hopefulnebula]

Reminds me of that anti-adoption woman a few years back who said (only slightly paraphrased) "if I found out my child had been switched at birth, all the love I have for the child I raised would immediately transfer to the child who really was mine."

Seriously. Wha?

[conuly]

Some people don't deserve kids.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

Jessy1019, was it? She's well known around the parenting circles for her crazy, yes consistant!, views on biology and parenting.

[hopefulnebula]

Yeah, that's her. I mean, I know love doesn't work that way, and I'm emotionally colorblind.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

I have mixed views on this. I'm sorry, but child support? Very rarely goes to the support of the kids, and I say this as a woman who gets child support. Often, its used as "OOH EXTRA MONEY" and for splurges (dinner out for all of us, or a new toy for each, etc), and I know a LOT of single mothers that this applies to.

And yet...a man that was lied to for x-amount of years by his ex-whore? IDK if legally he should be required to pay up because the bitch couldn't stay faithful (*raises hand* past unfaithful bitch here. :D) and keep her legs shut. Morally, sure, its shitty to be like "LULZ UR NOT MIEN!" and run out on the kid. But I kinda think the bitch should either find the bio father and make him pay, or STFU and pay the price (of raising the kid sans financial help from not-bio-dad that she slept around on) for being a whore.

I also think that men proven not to be the bio dad should be allowed to continue to visit with the kid if he chooses, but not pay the bitch who whelped said kid for being a whore. AND, I think if a woman knew the man paying her child support wasn't the father (or knew the possibility, didn't tell him, and later he was proved to not be the father), she should have to pay back every single penny he paid out to her.