You know what gets me?

[conuly]

When people call rolled oats "traditional" as compared to whole or steel-cut oats.

How the heck can they be traditional? There's no way they were there first! They require more processing! (And somebody please explain to me why they cost more in stores when they're less work to make. Huh? They are less labor intensive from field to shelf, aren't they? Am I missing something?)

It's like this book I have, Alcatraz and the Evil Librarians (great book, by the way), and at one point one of his newfound comrades (Not From Here) comments that of course stairs are more advanced than elevators - they're healthier, they're harder to put in, and they don't break down! The fact that elevators require a greater understanding of mechanics to achieve is quite beside the point. It's the same with oats, or with organic farming. It's better in some way (not, obviously, every way or the other way would never have become so popular!) and it's new to these people, so they figure that it's new to everybody. (How many times do babywearers get told "they didn't have THAT when my kids were little!"? Well, slings are some of the oldest inventions of humankind. They did have it. You didn't, that's all.)

It just bugs me.

Comments

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

That makes me think of the old Animorphs books, where the aliens believed books were more advanced then computers because you could access information easily just by turning a page or something.

[conuly]

And they don't require power to run, and you can salvage them even after they get wet. Sometimes, anyway.

I love oats.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Uh, weren't rolled oats before steel-cut?

(Whole of course being the default oat condition, at least after it's threshed and hulled.)

*googles* I'd call that a dead heat from this perspective, with steel-cut invented in 1875 and rolled oats invented in 1876.

Now, stone-ground oats are probably the oldest preparation besides whole.

Re: I love oats.

[conuly]

Okay, you're right. I was assuming.

But the point still remains when people make the same argument about whole or stone ground oats in comparison to rolled oats and call the wrong one traditional.

Re: I love oats.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Weeellll, breakableheart has a point about tradition as opposed to precedence....Rolled oats are a triumph of marketing, really.

As to the horse issue, remember what Dr. Johnson said in his dictionary: "Oats: A grain, which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland appears to support the people."

Researching the oat in general, I found a rebuttal to the good doctor: "Aye, which is why in England you'll raise fine horses, while in Scotland we'll raise fine people."

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

I think you're confusing "first" with "traditional".

[conuly]

No, I'm not.

If for 500 years or longer people ate cut oats for breakfast, and then rolled oats were invented 125 years ago, it doesn't make any sense to say you've only had "traditional oats" in comparison to the food that has a longer tradition!

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

In general you can't really say that everything "first" is also the "tradition". First BBQ is, say, wild animal caught in a raging wildfire and then consumed by pre-civilized humans. Traditional BBQ is in the back yard with a grill.

Are you only talking about oats? Is this an oat specific rant? Oats are traditionally horse food...

Groats are our favorite breakfast around here. We like them with a little maple syrup!

[conuly]

I can say it when the newcomer has only a hundred or so years of history - with others still using the old way! - and they're acting as though it's the only thing ever.

Oats aren't only traditionally horse food. Depends on where you are.

And no, it's on the whole subject of calling something new (as compared to traditional) when it's *not*.

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Again, I think you are perhaps confusing "traditional" with "original" or "first". If you asked Americans what they feel a "traditional" breakfast porrige would be, I bet most people who answer oats would be thinking rolled oats - because that's the traditional way oats are served for breakfast in this country. The "tradition" (as it were) is the Quaker man on the round box.

If you were talking to Amish people they might say oat groats, or even steel cut oats. If you were polling all our great grandparents the answer might be completely different. Traditions change and morph over time - my money is on the current mainstream majority American vision of "traditional" oats being rolled oats. Even quick oats, God forbid!

I mean I get what you're saying that people often don't consider sources or history and maybe they think of oat groats as "new" food. Clearly whole cooked grains aren't new in any respect.

Actually, are you talking to TFers and WAPers? Because they are completely whacked, honestly. You could get into some serious discussions with those folks about grains and traditional foods and... yeah. But they are the extreme element.

[conuly]

TF? WAP? I'm guessing that TF = traditional food, but...?

And no, this is something I came to all by myself.

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

HAHA! The traditional foods people and Weston A Price people are somewhat... uh... demented about what they consider to be appropriate traditional foods. For instance all grains are a no-no! But coconut oil? Faboo!

Except they skip right over the fact that I'm basically northern european genetically so coconuts were nowhere near my ancestors' traditional foods...

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

That makes me think of the old Animorphs books, where the aliens believed books were more advanced then computers because you could access information easily just by turning a page or something.

[conuly]

And they don't require power to run, and you can salvage them even after they get wet. Sometimes, anyway.

I love oats.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Uh, weren't rolled oats before steel-cut?

(Whole of course being the default oat condition, at least after it's threshed and hulled.)

*googles* I'd call that a dead heat from this perspective, with steel-cut invented in 1875 and rolled oats invented in 1876.

Now, stone-ground oats are probably the oldest preparation besides whole.

Re: I love oats.

[conuly]

Okay, you're right. I was assuming.

But the point still remains when people make the same argument about whole or stone ground oats in comparison to rolled oats and call the wrong one traditional.

Re: I love oats.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Weeellll, breakableheart has a point about tradition as opposed to precedence....Rolled oats are a triumph of marketing, really.

As to the horse issue, remember what Dr. Johnson said in his dictionary: "Oats: A grain, which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland appears to support the people."

Researching the oat in general, I found a rebuttal to the good doctor: "Aye, which is why in England you'll raise fine horses, while in Scotland we'll raise fine people."

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

I think you're confusing "first" with "traditional".

[conuly]

No, I'm not.

If for 500 years or longer people ate cut oats for breakfast, and then rolled oats were invented 125 years ago, it doesn't make any sense to say you've only had "traditional oats" in comparison to the food that has a longer tradition!

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

In general you can't really say that everything "first" is also the "tradition". First BBQ is, say, wild animal caught in a raging wildfire and then consumed by pre-civilized humans. Traditional BBQ is in the back yard with a grill.

Are you only talking about oats? Is this an oat specific rant? Oats are traditionally horse food...

Groats are our favorite breakfast around here. We like them with a little maple syrup!

[conuly]

I can say it when the newcomer has only a hundred or so years of history - with others still using the old way! - and they're acting as though it's the only thing ever.

Oats aren't only traditionally horse food. Depends on where you are.

And no, it's on the whole subject of calling something new (as compared to traditional) when it's *not*.

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Again, I think you are perhaps confusing "traditional" with "original" or "first". If you asked Americans what they feel a "traditional" breakfast porrige would be, I bet most people who answer oats would be thinking rolled oats - because that's the traditional way oats are served for breakfast in this country. The "tradition" (as it were) is the Quaker man on the round box.

If you were talking to Amish people they might say oat groats, or even steel cut oats. If you were polling all our great grandparents the answer might be completely different. Traditions change and morph over time - my money is on the current mainstream majority American vision of "traditional" oats being rolled oats. Even quick oats, God forbid!

I mean I get what you're saying that people often don't consider sources or history and maybe they think of oat groats as "new" food. Clearly whole cooked grains aren't new in any respect.

Actually, are you talking to TFers and WAPers? Because they are completely whacked, honestly. You could get into some serious discussions with those folks about grains and traditional foods and... yeah. But they are the extreme element.

[conuly]

TF? WAP? I'm guessing that TF = traditional food, but...?

And no, this is something I came to all by myself.

[breakableheart.livejournal.com]

HAHA! The traditional foods people and Weston A Price people are somewhat... uh... demented about what they consider to be appropriate traditional foods. For instance all grains are a no-no! But coconut oil? Faboo!

Except they skip right over the fact that I'm basically northern european genetically so coconuts were nowhere near my ancestors' traditional foods...