conuly

What does hoi polloi even mean?

From:

conuly

The many.

From:

Huh... How do you use it?

From:

"I'm glad I can discuss this with such an intelligent person as you, since grammar and proper usage is something that hoi polloi can never get right."

Roughly, "the unwashed masses".

From:

Ahh, now I get it.

From:

conuly

I don't. It's silly and pretentious, didn't I say that? But if I were to use it, I'd use it the way

pne explained.

From:

Condescendingly, talking of "the masses", "the sheeple", "the unwashed", "teh n00bs", etc. I think the idea is, by the virtue of the fact no one learn Classical Greek anymore, you get the added frisson of insulting people who disagree with you or whom you find disagreeable in a way they won't even understand! Win!

However, I don't personally mind prefixing it with "the". I used to, it's true, but I've thought about it more, and it's not like talking about an "ATM machine" at all. Definite pronouns, in languages that have them, are obligatory in most contexts, and there's no linguistic rule in English in which "hoi" can suddenly assume the role of "the". Omitting it would therefore be an error.

An example of the way in which foreign borrowings do not get to be analysed into constituent parts, whether or not one knows the language: the reduplicative name of the "El Alhambra". Yes, technically I just wrote "the 'The The Red'", and if you speak all three languages, it might strike you as funny, but incorrect? No, it's fine. The Arabs had a name, the Spanish took it and adopted it without attempts at analysis; the English, referring to the fort by its Spanish name, should likewise refrain from analyzing. If a Dane loved a hypothetical hotel in England called "The El Alhambra", he would be right to say "Jeg elsker The El Alhambra'en", and a German, "Ich liebe Das The El Alhambra", etc. So I say, bring on the pronouns, let's see how many we can string in a row!

From:

conuly

Yeah, but if you call it "The El Alhambra", you're not being condescending. Unless of course you are, but that's unrelated. If you're going to condescend by using a language you can safely assume the people you're insulting don't even understand, the least you can do is show them the respect of doing it right.

Or something.

From:

Obligatory Torpenhow Hill reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill).

From:

conuly

I love the Torpenhow.

From:

That reminds me of how my mom likes to say "salsa sauce."

From:

conuly

Pizza pie?

From:

"When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie
That's amore"

From:

conuly

Wheeeeeeeeeen... a farmer sets seed so to get some more feed... that's some more hay!

Now I'll be singing that all day, thanks.

(Edit: That's not sarcastic. But when my sister logs on to comment "Yeah, thanks from me too!", that probably will be.)

From:

minerva-fan.livejournal.com

How exactly does hoi palloi translate? My pet peeves are the dubious menu description: served with au jus sauce (Ooooh, that is served with with sauce sauce! Let me order immediately!) and "the most unique" as a descriptor. Oy.

From:

conuly

I'd rather have something served with au jus sauce than order the soup du jour of the day. Egads.

Hoi polloi means, literally, "the many".

From:

towanda.livejournal.com

I have the same issue with menus that say with "au jus." ;)

From:

That's "with au jus sauce".

From:

What about "The La Brea Tar Pits"? (as in "The The Tar Tar Pits".)

From:

conuly

Place names are exempt, if only because there's such a damn lot of them.

From:

Oooh well, strike my comments re: the El Alhambra. *clutches at exemption*

From:

sayga.livejournal.com

like PIN number. argh!

From:

conuly

And yet, it's okay to say "PIN number" if and only if you're utilizing an "ATM machine". Then you can either claim to be fully oblivious or (preferably) intentionally inept.

From:

I am unable to defend myself against your analysis. I shall change my habits forthwith.

From:

What does hoi polloi even mean?

From:

conuly

The many.

From:

Huh... How do you use it?

From:

"I'm glad I can discuss this with such an intelligent person as you, since grammar and proper usage is something that hoi polloi can never get right."

Roughly, "the unwashed masses".

From:

Ahh, now I get it.

From:

conuly

I don't. It's silly and pretentious, didn't I say that? But if I were to use it, I'd use it the way

pne explained.

From:

Condescendingly, talking of "the masses", "the sheeple", "the unwashed", "teh n00bs", etc. I think the idea is, by the virtue of the fact no one learn Classical Greek anymore, you get the added frisson of insulting people who disagree with you or whom you find disagreeable in a way they won't even understand! Win!

However, I don't personally mind prefixing it with "the". I used to, it's true, but I've thought about it more, and it's not like talking about an "ATM machine" at all. Definite pronouns, in languages that have them, are obligatory in most contexts, and there's no linguistic rule in English in which "hoi" can suddenly assume the role of "the". Omitting it would therefore be an error.

An example of the way in which foreign borrowings do not get to be analysed into constituent parts, whether or not one knows the language: the reduplicative name of the "El Alhambra". Yes, technically I just wrote "the 'The The Red'", and if you speak all three languages, it might strike you as funny, but incorrect? No, it's fine. The Arabs had a name, the Spanish took it and adopted it without attempts at analysis; the English, referring to the fort by its Spanish name, should likewise refrain from analyzing. If a Dane loved a hypothetical hotel in England called "The El Alhambra", he would be right to say "Jeg elsker The El Alhambra'en", and a German, "Ich liebe Das The El Alhambra", etc. So I say, bring on the pronouns, let's see how many we can string in a row!

From:

conuly

Yeah, but if you call it "The El Alhambra", you're not being condescending. Unless of course you are, but that's unrelated. If you're going to condescend by using a language you can safely assume the people you're insulting don't even understand, the least you can do is show them the respect of doing it right.

Or something.

From:

Obligatory Torpenhow Hill reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill).

From:

conuly

I love the Torpenhow.

From:

That reminds me of how my mom likes to say "salsa sauce."

From:

conuly

Pizza pie?

From:

"When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie
That's amore"

From:

conuly

Wheeeeeeeeeen... a farmer sets seed so to get some more feed... that's some more hay!

Now I'll be singing that all day, thanks.

(Edit: That's not sarcastic. But when my sister logs on to comment "Yeah, thanks from me too!", that probably will be.)

From:

minerva-fan.livejournal.com

How exactly does hoi palloi translate? My pet peeves are the dubious menu description: served with au jus sauce (Ooooh, that is served with with sauce sauce! Let me order immediately!) and "the most unique" as a descriptor. Oy.

From:

conuly

I'd rather have something served with au jus sauce than order the soup du jour of the day. Egads.

Hoi polloi means, literally, "the many".

From:

towanda.livejournal.com

I have the same issue with menus that say with "au jus." ;)

From:

That's "with au jus sauce".

From:

What about "The La Brea Tar Pits"? (as in "The The Tar Tar Pits".)

From:

conuly

Place names are exempt, if only because there's such a damn lot of them.

From:

Oooh well, strike my comments re: the El Alhambra. *clutches at exemption*

From:

sayga.livejournal.com

like PIN number. argh!

From:

conuly

And yet, it's okay to say "PIN number" if and only if you're utilizing an "ATM machine". Then you can either claim to be fully oblivious or (preferably) intentionally inept.

From: