Hey guys?

[conuly]

The "hoi" in "hoi polloi" means "the". (And try saying that one three times fast!) So if you're going to say it, you really ought to say it right (by which I mean, of course, the way *I* would say it if I ever used the phrase).

I know, I know. "Not saying 'the hoi polloi' will sound silly and pretentious!". I know! But here's an interesting fact you might not yet know - the entire phrase "hoi polloi" already sounds silly and pretentious, so either you skip it altogether, or you go whole-hog into your new persona as a silly, pretentious person. It's a win-win situation, really.

Comments

[conuly]

The many.

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

Huh... How do you use it?

[pne.livejournal.com]

"I'm glad I can discuss this with such an intelligent person as you, since grammar and proper usage is something that hoi polloi can never get right."

Roughly, "the unwashed masses".

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

Ahh, now I get it.

[conuly]

I don't. It's silly and pretentious, didn't I say that? But if I were to use it, I'd use it the way pne explained.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

Condescendingly, talking of "the masses", "the sheeple", "the unwashed", "teh n00bs", etc. I think the idea is, by the virtue of the fact no one learn Classical Greek anymore, you get the added frisson of insulting people who disagree with you or whom you find disagreeable in a way they won't even understand! Win!

However, I don't personally mind prefixing it with "the". I used to, it's true, but I've thought about it more, and it's not like talking about an "ATM machine" at all. Definite pronouns, in languages that have them, are obligatory in most contexts, and there's no linguistic rule in English in which "hoi" can suddenly assume the role of "the". Omitting it would therefore be an error.

An example of the way in which foreign borrowings do not get to be analysed into constituent parts, whether or not one knows the language: the reduplicative name of the "El Alhambra". Yes, technically I just wrote "the 'The The Red'", and if you speak all three languages, it might strike you as funny, but incorrect? No, it's fine. The Arabs had a name, the Spanish took it and adopted it without attempts at analysis; the English, referring to the fort by its Spanish name, should likewise refrain from analyzing. If a Dane loved a hypothetical hotel in England called "The El Alhambra", he would be right to say "Jeg elsker The El Alhambra'en", and a German, "Ich liebe Das The El Alhambra", etc. So I say, bring on the pronouns, let's see how many we can string in a row!

[conuly]

Yeah, but if you call it "The El Alhambra", you're not being condescending. Unless of course you are, but that's unrelated. If you're going to condescend by using a language you can safely assume the people you're insulting don't even understand, the least you can do is show them the respect of doing it right.

Or something.

[packbat.livejournal.com]

Obligatory Torpenhow Hill reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill).

[conuly]

I love the Torpenhow.