I've probably posted about this before.

[conuly]

Periodically, people on the internet talk about locking their very young children (like, under the age of four or five) in their rooms at bedtime. They're usually tempted, but are looking for people to talk them out of it.

And somebody (often several somebodies) is always there to say it's a fire hazard, they wouldn't even close the door all the way, what if the kid couldn't get out in a fire?

I tell you, I do not understand this reasoning at all. I'd prefer to have a dutch door or a baby gate, just for my own psychological reasons (the image of locking a kid up is very disturbing, and I can't quite remove it from my emotional response), but surely it's safer, if there's a fire, for you and the firefighters to know where your child is, instead of having to hunt up and down the house for him or her? Because many parents, I'm sure, would not leave the house without their child, although they probably ought to. And if the kid has left, and the parents can't find them outside... they shouldn't go back in, but what if they do anyway?

As arguments go, I don't understand why people think it's so compelling. If you're really worried about fire safety, it's probably a better idea to clearly mark the kid's door to say there's a child in there, and to maybe invest in some serious fireproofing in your home.

Comments

[leora.livejournal.com]

I have a bit of a fear of fires, always have. Which is why as a child I always wanted to sleep with my door closed all the way. Because it's safer. Leaving the door open is a fire hazard. The door acts as a fire stop. Sure, it won't protect you that much, but it buys you a little bit of time before you burn to a crisp. And if you have the ability to get out of the house from your room, that can be critical. My bedroom was on the second floor, so the proper thing to do in case of a fire is to feel the door, if it's warm do not open it. If cool, feel the door handle. If cool, open it, stay low, head out. If it's warm though, tie a bedsheet to the bed, toss it out a window (break the window with anything handy and knock out the shards of glass with anything handy if you can't open it), and climb out. If the sheet won't reach all the way - hang drop, it'll buy you your own height plus the length of your arms. But, these days, kids don't need to do that - because you can buy them a fire safety ladder they can use and attach to safely get out.

I'd have been able to handle the above at about age 4, most kids probably would need to be a bit older. So, say by age 7 they should be able to do that in case of fire. If you're really worried, you should practice it a time or two with your kid.

But close the door... especially because the real issue I think you're likely to deal with is the smoke before the fire. And closing the door can make a real difference for the travelling of the smoke. As you have less oxygen, you'll think less well. So, if the fire alarms are loud enough to wake people up, the decrease in smoke where the people are can help them remember fire safety tips.

Oh, and if you can't get out of your room - for example, it's too high up or you have nothing that can get you down safely, or you don't have the physical ability to get out - do not jump. But do wave something out the window - something white or bright. And then the fire fighters will know there's a person there that needs help. Generally, if fire fighters are on their way, signaling that you need help and waiting where you are (but staying low to avoid smoke) is the best thing you can do, because they are experts, and you're probably not.

[leora.livejournal.com]

But for under age 4, I don't think wave something out the window, then lie down in front of the window is that hard to do or handle for a 3+ year old. The putting something out the window isn't really that necessary, but I think it'd be good for the kid, because it'd make the child feel more like they'd done something, and give them more incentive to stay lying down in an easy to find place, because they know they marked that place so the fire fighters would find them.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

They have those stickers for windows that you can mark where your child is.

[conuly]

Very sensible, but you know there are always people worried about some stranger stealing the kid from their room. I don't think it's a huge risk (certainly compared to a fire risk), but.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

If firefighters are trying to rescue your children, would you want to place another obstacle in their way, in the name of knowing where the child is? Or, for that matter, what if the fire starts in the child's room and the door is locked?

I wouldn't want to lock my children in their rooms at bedtime because there's no guarantee that something wouldn't happen to me. I don't want to be hampered in helping them, and I don't want them hampered in helping me.

[conuly]

By locked, they generally mean "with a hook" not "with a key".

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

A fire is always a possibility, and that's why everyone - not just children - should sleep with bedroom doors closed but not locked. And yes, of course childrens' windows and bedroom doors ought to have those Child Alert stickers on them, and there should be smoke alarms in every bedroom, and families with young kids ought to have fire drills once a month (because just telling a child what to do, or having them do it once, is not enough to ensure that they'll remember in an emergency.

The issue of fire safety is somewhat beside the point, though. Children are not for locking up! If a kid gets up out of bed at night, there's a reason for it: he or she is sick, scared, has to go to the bathroom - do these parents really want their kid crying alone on the other side of a locked door?

Suppose something happened to Mommy and/or Daddy. A fire started in their room, and they're both dead of smoke inhalation already - the only adult in the house had a heart attack, or choked on food, or fell down the stairs, or overdosed on alcohol or drugs - the grown-ups "slipped out for just a few minutes" (illegal as hell, but people do it) and got in a wreck...

.... HOW LONG will the child be crying alone behind that locked door before anyone else comes to unlock it? A maximum of three days, because after that, the crying will have permanently ceased. A child under 4 or 5 would probably not think to go out a window even if it would be physically possible, because kids that young rely on adults to take care of them.

No. Locking kids in is a dangerous and irresponsible practice. It's true, when children are little they tend to be up-and-down at night a lot, which can interfere pretty seriously with their parents' sleep and sex lives. It's also true that when you've got young children, you can't safely leave them alone in the house even to run to the store down the block, which can be very inconvenient.

Too bad. People who want unbroken sleep, undisturbed sex, and freedom to go where they want when they want should not have children in the first place.

[erisiansaint]

Have you ever had children?

There came a point where I considered getting a door that locked for a few days, because my son had just learned how to get out of his crib by himself, and as a result, was refusing to go to sleep. At all. And because he could get out of the crib by himself, he'd leave the room. This isn't about having sex or unbroken sleep or freedom, it's about the fact that, for at least a week, and this happened several times, I would have to hold the door closed for two straight hours because he did not want to go to sleep. Spanking does not work in this case, the only thing that worked was /holding that door closed/. Let me tell you, it gets bloody tiring.

I do not advocate the door locked from the outside. But I'm also not that judgemental of people asking the question, because I know where it comes from.

[leora.livejournal.com]

My parents never locked me in my bedroom. However, their bedroom had a hallway that led up to it and branched off to include a bathroom. They regularly locked the door to their bedroom area when they went to sleep.

On the other hand, until I was 3 or 4, I had older sisters who lived at home (14 and 15 years older), and I would pester them at times.

But I do find it interesting that there is all this talk of locking the child in, and none of locking the child out.

[conuly]

I agree, mostly - I wouldn't lock a kid in a room simply because you're locking a kid up, and ew. It's just that people always say "fire safety", and talk about keeping the door open, and it makes no sense to me.

That said, with many young children, the reason they get up in the middle of the night seems less to be "sick, scared, thirsty, or bathroom" and often "Oooh... I bet I can sneak some cookies now!" At least some of the time.... It'd be easier to never think of the easier option of you weren't looking at teeth marks in the butter in the morning.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I have a bit of a fear of fires, always have. Which is why as a child I always wanted to sleep with my door closed all the way. Because it's safer. Leaving the door open is a fire hazard. The door acts as a fire stop. Sure, it won't protect you that much, but it buys you a little bit of time before you burn to a crisp. And if you have the ability to get out of the house from your room, that can be critical. My bedroom was on the second floor, so the proper thing to do in case of a fire is to feel the door, if it's warm do not open it. If cool, feel the door handle. If cool, open it, stay low, head out. If it's warm though, tie a bedsheet to the bed, toss it out a window (break the window with anything handy and knock out the shards of glass with anything handy if you can't open it), and climb out. If the sheet won't reach all the way - hang drop, it'll buy you your own height plus the length of your arms. But, these days, kids don't need to do that - because you can buy them a fire safety ladder they can use and attach to safely get out.

I'd have been able to handle the above at about age 4, most kids probably would need to be a bit older. So, say by age 7 they should be able to do that in case of fire. If you're really worried, you should practice it a time or two with your kid.

But close the door... especially because the real issue I think you're likely to deal with is the smoke before the fire. And closing the door can make a real difference for the travelling of the smoke. As you have less oxygen, you'll think less well. So, if the fire alarms are loud enough to wake people up, the decrease in smoke where the people are can help them remember fire safety tips.

Oh, and if you can't get out of your room - for example, it's too high up or you have nothing that can get you down safely, or you don't have the physical ability to get out - do not jump. But do wave something out the window - something white or bright. And then the fire fighters will know there's a person there that needs help. Generally, if fire fighters are on their way, signaling that you need help and waiting where you are (but staying low to avoid smoke) is the best thing you can do, because they are experts, and you're probably not.

[leora.livejournal.com]

But for under age 4, I don't think wave something out the window, then lie down in front of the window is that hard to do or handle for a 3+ year old. The putting something out the window isn't really that necessary, but I think it'd be good for the kid, because it'd make the child feel more like they'd done something, and give them more incentive to stay lying down in an easy to find place, because they know they marked that place so the fire fighters would find them.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

They have those stickers for windows that you can mark where your child is.

[conuly]

Very sensible, but you know there are always people worried about some stranger stealing the kid from their room. I don't think it's a huge risk (certainly compared to a fire risk), but.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

If firefighters are trying to rescue your children, would you want to place another obstacle in their way, in the name of knowing where the child is? Or, for that matter, what if the fire starts in the child's room and the door is locked?

I wouldn't want to lock my children in their rooms at bedtime because there's no guarantee that something wouldn't happen to me. I don't want to be hampered in helping them, and I don't want them hampered in helping me.

[conuly]

By locked, they generally mean "with a hook" not "with a key".

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

A fire is always a possibility, and that's why everyone - not just children - should sleep with bedroom doors closed but not locked. And yes, of course childrens' windows and bedroom doors ought to have those Child Alert stickers on them, and there should be smoke alarms in every bedroom, and families with young kids ought to have fire drills once a month (because just telling a child what to do, or having them do it once, is not enough to ensure that they'll remember in an emergency.

The issue of fire safety is somewhat beside the point, though. Children are not for locking up! If a kid gets up out of bed at night, there's a reason for it: he or she is sick, scared, has to go to the bathroom - do these parents really want their kid crying alone on the other side of a locked door?

Suppose something happened to Mommy and/or Daddy. A fire started in their room, and they're both dead of smoke inhalation already - the only adult in the house had a heart attack, or choked on food, or fell down the stairs, or overdosed on alcohol or drugs - the grown-ups "slipped out for just a few minutes" (illegal as hell, but people do it) and got in a wreck...

.... HOW LONG will the child be crying alone behind that locked door before anyone else comes to unlock it? A maximum of three days, because after that, the crying will have permanently ceased. A child under 4 or 5 would probably not think to go out a window even if it would be physically possible, because kids that young rely on adults to take care of them.

No. Locking kids in is a dangerous and irresponsible practice. It's true, when children are little they tend to be up-and-down at night a lot, which can interfere pretty seriously with their parents' sleep and sex lives. It's also true that when you've got young children, you can't safely leave them alone in the house even to run to the store down the block, which can be very inconvenient.

Too bad. People who want unbroken sleep, undisturbed sex, and freedom to go where they want when they want should not have children in the first place.

[erisiansaint]

Have you ever had children?

There came a point where I considered getting a door that locked for a few days, because my son had just learned how to get out of his crib by himself, and as a result, was refusing to go to sleep. At all. And because he could get out of the crib by himself, he'd leave the room. This isn't about having sex or unbroken sleep or freedom, it's about the fact that, for at least a week, and this happened several times, I would have to hold the door closed for two straight hours because he did not want to go to sleep. Spanking does not work in this case, the only thing that worked was /holding that door closed/. Let me tell you, it gets bloody tiring.

I do not advocate the door locked from the outside. But I'm also not that judgemental of people asking the question, because I know where it comes from.

[leora.livejournal.com]

My parents never locked me in my bedroom. However, their bedroom had a hallway that led up to it and branched off to include a bathroom. They regularly locked the door to their bedroom area when they went to sleep.

On the other hand, until I was 3 or 4, I had older sisters who lived at home (14 and 15 years older), and I would pester them at times.

But I do find it interesting that there is all this talk of locking the child in, and none of locking the child out.

[conuly]

I agree, mostly - I wouldn't lock a kid in a room simply because you're locking a kid up, and ew. It's just that people always say "fire safety", and talk about keeping the door open, and it makes no sense to me.

That said, with many young children, the reason they get up in the middle of the night seems less to be "sick, scared, thirsty, or bathroom" and often "Oooh... I bet I can sneak some cookies now!" At least some of the time.... It'd be easier to never think of the easier option of you weren't looking at teeth marks in the butter in the morning.