So, thinking about Harry Potter....

[conuly]

In GoF, we find out that he's got a fair level of natural resistance to Imperius, which he strengthens considerably in just three easy lessons (and why *did* Crouch bother actually teaching him to resist this curse? Wasn't that counterproductive to his ultimate goal? Would he have been unveiled so easily if he hadn't?). The implication is that he's not very prone to outright magical manipulation. Anybody wanting to mess with his mind has to resort to some trickery, as they do in OotP, convincing him that Sirius is dead.

Skip ahead to book 6. The luck potion works, apparently, like Imperius - it tells you what to do, and you do it. And he doesn't even question it! Why is this?

And does the luck potion give you what you *want* or what you *need*? For example, let's say that using this potion before a Quidditch game and getting caught will land you in deep trouble with the wizarding mob. But you're stupid, so you do it anyway. Would the luck potion help you (or your team) win the game, or would it help you save your damn skin? Or does it go for broke, and both help you win the game *and* keep the mob from finding out what you did, by somehow eliminating the evidence even after it's worn off?

Comments

[katschakai.livejournal.com]

Maybe the feeling you get from the luck potion is more happy and positive, whilst the imperius is more dominant and negative? So you sort of forget that you might want to resist it.

And about want/need, I'm sort of coming up with this theory while I write this, but: maybe that depends on your personality? I'f you are sort of arrogant, it will help you win, but you will be found out, if you are more modest you get both, or something.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I'd say that it's because the felix doesn't oirder you to do anything; it suggests. You choose to do it, but if it told you to do something you truly didn't want to do, you wouldn't necessarily do it. Kind of like being hypnotized, rather than being fully taken over.

I think it tries to have you do whatever will give you the best day... so if your motives are pure, you'll want good things and have a great day, if not, you may end up doing things that still lead to you having a great day, but the consequences on a later day might really suck. But it won't let you do something that will be found out that day and lead to consequences that suck that day.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

Well, IIRC he took FF deliberately, so a) he was "cooperating" with it rather than fighting it, and b) he was clearly expecting it to have an effect, so there may be some sort of magical placebo effect there (cf. Ron later).

[snale.livejournal.com]

and why *did* Crouch bother actually teaching him to resist this curse? Wasn't that counterproductive to his ultimate goal? Would he have been unveiled so easily if he hadn't?
Theoretically, at least, it was because Crouch wouldn't want Harry to be ablet to use the "I was under Imperius excuse". Crouch had a whole thing about Death Eaters who turned against Voldemort after his "death", saying that they didn't really support him, they'd just been under Imperius.

[physixxx.livejournal.com]

I think we get the impression that the luck potion is "telling" him what to do because that's the only way we -- as human beings -- can understand something as complex (and supposedly inherent) as fate or destiny (in the literary use of the word). JKR goes back and forth between saying stuff like "(the potion) told him this was the right thing to do" and "(the potion) illuminated a couple steps ahead" ... so that it's not some outside force COMPELLING HIM to do it. It's not like mind control at all... there is no entity/person/thing actually guiding him, rather, it's simply Harry's (noone-too-consistent) interpretation of what's happening to him.

As far as the want-need thing: it would do both, at least for the duration of the potion. So, if Harry took enough for an hour of flawless Quittich, then during that hour, he'd not be caught for it, either. But, should someone be investigating the incident OUTSIDE of the time duration of the effects, then he'd probably get caught.

My only problem with GoF (actually I have a couple) is that Moody/Crouch Jr does do too much to help the enemy by teaching them how to resist the Imperius Curse. In fact, we KNOW that he didn't HAVE to teach them that because he basically said "you shouldn't be learning this right now".

I think it was JKR's way of saying "look, guys, I'm gonna be using various degrees of mind control in the next couple books but don't worry because Harry can resist that rubbish and here's proof."

It's part of the limits of JKR's prose, actually. (One of many, actually)

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Did I miss something that says that Sirius is not dead?

[eofs.livejournal.com]

No, but Harry dreamt he was before it actually happened.

[conuly]

Sirius wasn't dead until he felt he had to go save Harry who was risking his life in the Ministry to save Sirius, who, up until that point, was safe at home.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Crouch Jr was crazy and sadistic. I'd say maybe he got pleasure out of it.

[katschakai.livejournal.com]

Maybe the feeling you get from the luck potion is more happy and positive, whilst the imperius is more dominant and negative? So you sort of forget that you might want to resist it.

And about want/need, I'm sort of coming up with this theory while I write this, but: maybe that depends on your personality? I'f you are sort of arrogant, it will help you win, but you will be found out, if you are more modest you get both, or something.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I'd say that it's because the felix doesn't oirder you to do anything; it suggests. You choose to do it, but if it told you to do something you truly didn't want to do, you wouldn't necessarily do it. Kind of like being hypnotized, rather than being fully taken over.

I think it tries to have you do whatever will give you the best day... so if your motives are pure, you'll want good things and have a great day, if not, you may end up doing things that still lead to you having a great day, but the consequences on a later day might really suck. But it won't let you do something that will be found out that day and lead to consequences that suck that day.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

Well, IIRC he took FF deliberately, so a) he was "cooperating" with it rather than fighting it, and b) he was clearly expecting it to have an effect, so there may be some sort of magical placebo effect there (cf. Ron later).

[snale.livejournal.com]

and why *did* Crouch bother actually teaching him to resist this curse? Wasn't that counterproductive to his ultimate goal? Would he have been unveiled so easily if he hadn't?
Theoretically, at least, it was because Crouch wouldn't want Harry to be ablet to use the "I was under Imperius excuse". Crouch had a whole thing about Death Eaters who turned against Voldemort after his "death", saying that they didn't really support him, they'd just been under Imperius.

[physixxx.livejournal.com]

I think we get the impression that the luck potion is "telling" him what to do because that's the only way we -- as human beings -- can understand something as complex (and supposedly inherent) as fate or destiny (in the literary use of the word). JKR goes back and forth between saying stuff like "(the potion) told him this was the right thing to do" and "(the potion) illuminated a couple steps ahead" ... so that it's not some outside force COMPELLING HIM to do it. It's not like mind control at all... there is no entity/person/thing actually guiding him, rather, it's simply Harry's (noone-too-consistent) interpretation of what's happening to him.

As far as the want-need thing: it would do both, at least for the duration of the potion. So, if Harry took enough for an hour of flawless Quittich, then during that hour, he'd not be caught for it, either. But, should someone be investigating the incident OUTSIDE of the time duration of the effects, then he'd probably get caught.

My only problem with GoF (actually I have a couple) is that Moody/Crouch Jr does do too much to help the enemy by teaching them how to resist the Imperius Curse. In fact, we KNOW that he didn't HAVE to teach them that because he basically said "you shouldn't be learning this right now".

I think it was JKR's way of saying "look, guys, I'm gonna be using various degrees of mind control in the next couple books but don't worry because Harry can resist that rubbish and here's proof."

It's part of the limits of JKR's prose, actually. (One of many, actually)

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Did I miss something that says that Sirius is not dead?

[eofs.livejournal.com]

No, but Harry dreamt he was before it actually happened.

[conuly]

Sirius wasn't dead until he felt he had to go save Harry who was risking his life in the Ministry to save Sirius, who, up until that point, was safe at home.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Crouch Jr was crazy and sadistic. I'd say maybe he got pleasure out of it.