And now, for another edition of...
Jan. 2nd, 2006 02:08 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
conuly
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Ethnic.
of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.
It does not mean specifically black. It does not even mean non-white. I highly doubt it's supposed to mean anything from "We don't want to offend you by trying to figure out what you people call yourselves" to "Oh, let's cater to the ethnics by throwing them a single toy made Just For Them!"
And when you segregate the hair stuff into two completely different aisles, nowhere near each other, one marked "hair supplies" and one labeled "ethnic hair supplies" (by which they could only have meant black, unless there's much I don't understand about Asian hair....), you just piss people (me!) off. It's stupid. Stop doing that. I know it's easier to find the hair stuff you're looking for when it's labelled, but why not call it by its function (oils, shampoo, extensions) and stick it in one aisle, instead of having half with the beauty supplies and half with the foot care? At the very least, stop calling it ethnic. That term, it doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
Ethnic.
of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.
It does not mean specifically black. It does not even mean non-white. I highly doubt it's supposed to mean anything from "We don't want to offend you by trying to figure out what you people call yourselves" to "Oh, let's cater to the ethnics by throwing them a single toy made Just For Them!"
And when you segregate the hair stuff into two completely different aisles, nowhere near each other, one marked "hair supplies" and one labeled "ethnic hair supplies" (by which they could only have meant black, unless there's much I don't understand about Asian hair....), you just piss people (me!) off. It's stupid. Stop doing that. I know it's easier to find the hair stuff you're looking for when it's labelled, but why not call it by its function (oils, shampoo, extensions) and stick it in one aisle, instead of having half with the beauty supplies and half with the foot care? At the very least, stop calling it ethnic. That term, it doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
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Oooh! Oooh! I got one! I got one!
Date: 2006-01-02 07:57 am (UTC)Re: Oooh! Oooh! I got one! I got one!
Date: 2006-01-03 02:27 am (UTC)And they're all insulting. It's like the whole nonsense with person-first language. You're not hiding anything by saying "a person with autism/blindness/homosexuality", you're just making a big deal out of something that doesn't need to be.
(Which doesn't mean I condone the use of phrases such as "special needs" as adjectives. They're not, and they're unbelievably vague to boot.)
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 07:58 am (UTC)The definition of a word is what society says it means. NOT what some stuffy book says it means.
As far as I've seen, "ethnic" in the US is generally understood to mean "non-whites." Perhaps not technically correct, but the meaning is generally understood by most people.
I have no issue with the labeling - they *should* be labeled as such. I *hate* shopping for something as simple as mens clothing, because half the time it's not labeled.
Though having the two sections in completely different aisles is rather stupid...
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 08:50 pm (UTC)Some people may understand it to refer to non-whites, but I wouldn't refer to it as a "general" understanding by any means. I understand the word ethnic to connote the same thing it denotes -- a group of people with a common heritage or culture. The only area where general usage differs from the actual dictionary definition is that it's rarely used to refer to the largest ethnic group in a particular area. In the US the largest ethnic group is WASPS, so people here don't generally think of WASPS as "ethnic" -- but Irish Americans, Jews, Cubans, Swedish-Americans, and many others are certainly members of ethnic groups, even though they're all white.
What area are you from? Perhaps the usage you're familiar with is a regional one.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-03 02:24 am (UTC)I'd tend to agree, but the dictionary isn't "some stuffy book". I've yet to figure out how lexographers do their job, but I know that usage drives what they put in the dictionary - not, despite the best intentions of English teachers everywhere, the other way around.
As far as I've seen, "ethnic" in the US is generally understood to mean "non-whites."
Except that's not my experience. In my experience, it's only used to mean "non-whites" in two senses - the marketing world, and the world of veiled insults. Either sense is, as near as I can figure, ultimately insulting.
Everywhere else that I've seen, people use ethnic and ethnicity in a more accurate sense. When they use it - people refer to their ethnicity often without using the word "ethnicity".
It's a big country. It's even a big city. There's lots of room for regional variation here.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 08:05 am (UTC)Geez, for thick, coarse hair they're fantastic. Who knew?
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 10:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 09:10 am (UTC)The latest newbie to
I do have to say that in the new "is this Autism" questions arena, being asked whether preferring to stick with people that share your views/experiences is autism was a new one on me. *g* (In reality, I'm not sure whether as a group we prefer similar folk more than NTs or not...or whether that would be a trait on our side, or a trait in terms of how others react to us, or a combination under different circumstances, or...ow, my head hurts... *snerk*)
I'd toss this at my flist, but you're the only one I can think of offhand that is a DWJ fan, and I see you're the only one on that comm. (I'm sure *somebody* else is into DWJ on my flist, but I can't name them offhand.)
no subject
Date: 2006-01-03 02:25 am (UTC)That's not generally helpful.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 06:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-03 03:15 am (UTC)Oooh! Oooh! I got one! I got one!
Date: 2006-01-02 07:57 am (UTC)Re: Oooh! Oooh! I got one! I got one!
Date: 2006-01-03 02:27 am (UTC)And they're all insulting. It's like the whole nonsense with person-first language. You're not hiding anything by saying "a person with autism/blindness/homosexuality", you're just making a big deal out of something that doesn't need to be.
(Which doesn't mean I condone the use of phrases such as "special needs" as adjectives. They're not, and they're unbelievably vague to boot.)
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 07:58 am (UTC)The definition of a word is what society says it means. NOT what some stuffy book says it means.
As far as I've seen, "ethnic" in the US is generally understood to mean "non-whites." Perhaps not technically correct, but the meaning is generally understood by most people.
I have no issue with the labeling - they *should* be labeled as such. I *hate* shopping for something as simple as mens clothing, because half the time it's not labeled.
Though having the two sections in completely different aisles is rather stupid...
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 08:50 pm (UTC)Some people may understand it to refer to non-whites, but I wouldn't refer to it as a "general" understanding by any means. I understand the word ethnic to connote the same thing it denotes -- a group of people with a common heritage or culture. The only area where general usage differs from the actual dictionary definition is that it's rarely used to refer to the largest ethnic group in a particular area. In the US the largest ethnic group is WASPS, so people here don't generally think of WASPS as "ethnic" -- but Irish Americans, Jews, Cubans, Swedish-Americans, and many others are certainly members of ethnic groups, even though they're all white.
What area are you from? Perhaps the usage you're familiar with is a regional one.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-03 02:24 am (UTC)I'd tend to agree, but the dictionary isn't "some stuffy book". I've yet to figure out how lexographers do their job, but I know that usage drives what they put in the dictionary - not, despite the best intentions of English teachers everywhere, the other way around.
As far as I've seen, "ethnic" in the US is generally understood to mean "non-whites."
Except that's not my experience. In my experience, it's only used to mean "non-whites" in two senses - the marketing world, and the world of veiled insults. Either sense is, as near as I can figure, ultimately insulting.
Everywhere else that I've seen, people use ethnic and ethnicity in a more accurate sense. When they use it - people refer to their ethnicity often without using the word "ethnicity".
It's a big country. It's even a big city. There's lots of room for regional variation here.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 08:05 am (UTC)Geez, for thick, coarse hair they're fantastic. Who knew?
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 10:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 09:10 am (UTC)The latest newbie to
I do have to say that in the new "is this Autism" questions arena, being asked whether preferring to stick with people that share your views/experiences is autism was a new one on me. *g* (In reality, I'm not sure whether as a group we prefer similar folk more than NTs or not...or whether that would be a trait on our side, or a trait in terms of how others react to us, or a combination under different circumstances, or...ow, my head hurts... *snerk*)
I'd toss this at my flist, but you're the only one I can think of offhand that is a DWJ fan, and I see you're the only one on that comm. (I'm sure *somebody* else is into DWJ on my flist, but I can't name them offhand.)
no subject
Date: 2006-01-03 02:25 am (UTC)That's not generally helpful.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-02 06:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-03 03:15 am (UTC)