So, I have a question...

[conuly]

And a story or two to go along with it!

Ana yesterday fell onto a puzzle in such a way that it hurt her in, ah, a sensitive area. Yeah. Owie!

And she wanted her mom to kiss it, which wasn't happening for reasons that were difficult to explain without giving the wrong idea. Poor Ana kept going "Kiss the 'gina!"

Except, of course, it's not the vagina. That's inside. It's the vulva. So why is it that parents who work to use the correct terms with their kids (often self-righteously, but that's a common thread among all such decisions, I find) go "Well, we use the right term, it's a vagina."? It's not! Vagina! Inside! Vulva! Outside! DUH!

[Poll #639771]

Also yesterday, while we're sitting in her mom's room, Ana starts clutching her vulva and asking me what it was, so she could say "I touch 'gina!"* (I didn't want to confuse the issue by adding a new term, though I knew better). If this keeps up, we're going to have to find a way to explain about private parts without warping her for life.

*_{She does this all the time. No, not *that*, asking what something is so she can use the word. "I touch Microwave! I touch ceiling!" It's cute.}

I'm not using the normal tag for issues with the kid, because I intend to friends-lock this anyway long before she gets savvy enough to look it up and KILL ME.

Comments

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

Re: Santa, etc.

What my parents did when I was a kid was they told us about the real St. Nicholas and then explained that Santa and reindeer and everything was a fun game that everyone liked to play at Christmas time. So we still got to have the fun of Santa, without the trauma of being lied to. I think that's a good happy medium I'll use with my kids.

(Of course, it didn't always work. Cultural programming is powerful as it turns out. When I was 4 or so, my mom took me to the mall to sit on "Santa's" lap. She had already explained that this was a game and he was playing dress-up. We got to the mall and I saw him and yelled, "Mom! It's the real Santa!" and ran right up to him. Oh well, she tried. (: )

[rho]

Some of these were awkward to answer, because it very much depends on the situation. In general, I'd try to follow the parents' lead, and just use whatever terms the kid was used to, and if I didn't know that, try to use terms which were east likely to be offensive while avoiding being painfually naff. On the off chance that I ever have children of my own, I'd plan to talk to them exactly as I'd talk to anyone else, though I'm not sure how that would turn out.

Oh, and for the first question, I'd probably say "have you hurt yourself?" or similar, thus avoiding the issue enirely.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

Cultural difference here (I'm Anglo-Italian, in the UK) - Santa is not the same as Father Christmas is not the same as Saint Nicholas is not the same as La Befana... We don't do 'Santa' full stop. Father Christmas has a somewhat different history and demeanour, although for the time being he does bring presents. (My son's 2, he hasn't a clue really, but there's a Santa/FC figure in some of his books.) The Easter Bunny isn't something I grew up with (we don't do Trick-or-Treat either) so we won't be bothering, but we will probably have some kind of minimal Tooth Fairy ritual and I'm liking the idea of celebrating Soul Cake Day. :D

My GP says 'wee and poo', and when she did use 'shit' in conversation with me she blushed rather a lot. She's pretty much the only person I'd discuss my own excretory functions with in any detail, I expect.

[zannechaos.livejournal.com]

The only time I'd discuss bathroom functions with anyone would be a doctor, and then, it'd be clinically correct terminology. o_O;

As far as these terms...

Horsie - I've never used this. Not even as a child. I checked the box because I wanted to mention this. "Horse" was one of the earliest words in my vocab, along with "turtle". Mom said I used to correct adults in an annoyed tone of voice that no, tyvm, it was 'horse', not 'horsie' when they'd try to talk to me. ::snerk::

Kitty/Pussycat; Duckie; Piggy; Bunny; Doggie; Choo-choo - with the exception of 'choo-choo', depending on my mood and the critter in question, I still use these words. ::snerk:: Horses are far too incredible to get slapped with an 'ie', I guess. But I'm more inclined to use 'duckie' and 'piggy' in regard to ducklings and piglets. Bunny is a common word I probably use more often than 'rabbit' (if only because of plotbunnies!) and 'kitty' gets quite a bit of use too. 'Doggie' I use the least out of the lot, as I'm more inclined to call a puppy a puppy. But 'doggie' has its place, particularly... hmm... not necessarily sarcasm, I'm having trouble pinning down the word, but I don't usually use it in a time of cutesy. An example would be "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'good doggie' while reaching for a big rock."

[conuly]

I bring it up because, well, first, I wanna be complete, and secondly, because *I* mention it. I'll run for the bathroom "Can't talk gotta pee!" if that's the situation :)

[conuly]

I wasn't sure how to deal with large-scale cultural differences, so I just stuck it in and waited for comments :) Should've put "other" in, though... drat.

We didn't do the Easter Bunny story in my family, but we dyed and hid eggs anyway. 'cuz it's fun.

[zannechaos.livejournal.com]

I tend to use a more generic, "Excuse me, I need to stop by the restroom." The specifics of what I'm doing and why don't need to be mentioned. ^_^

[tellinellen.livejournal.com]

i think that for myself and with kids, i use both cutesie slang and real terms. it depends on the situation, what the kid is used to saying, etc.

i understand your issue with the misuse of the word vagina, but i don't think kids need to know all the specific landmarks down there, so it doesn't really bother me. i guess if all little girls referred to the whole area as "vulva" it would be more appropriate (though then the vagina would be left out), but i guess the thing is simply that people are not comfortable w the word vulva.

what was that last question? i clicked moose, but i had no idea what i was saying by doing so.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I don't have set terms I use. I'd say what came to mind. I'd probably use the proper terms. Or I might say, "Oh, you hurt yourself". Or something else.

[conuly]

In reverse order:

1. Last question's just a ticky box
2. Hee. Considering that a lot of adults get by without knowing what their own body is like, I agree - it just seems strange to say you're using the right term when you're not.
3. Fair 'nuff.

[innerbrat]

"Sweetie, it's just not polite to touch your privates in public. And it's not polite to touch anyone else's either. That's a private area."

And later you can explain that it's not just because it's to do with wee, which is a rude thing.

If she knows that weeing and pooing in public is rude, she'll accept that touching the wee and poo areas in public is rude.

[conuly]

If she knows that weeing and pooing in public is rude, she'll accept that touching the wee and poo areas in public is rude.

I don't know if she knows that. She knows that she can go on the toilet (and if she hasn't had a diaper on, she prefers that nowadays) and she knows she can go in a diaper (and sometimes she'll still say "I want diaper on!" when she means she has to go, but I don't know how... advanced... her understanding is on the whole subject.

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

I chose as best I could without knowing the age of the hypothetical child I was talking to -- I would have done better with checkboxes instead of radio buttons, so I could have marked more than one. With very little ones I do succumb to using baby-talk terms -- I can even imagine myself saying "Did you make a poopie?!" to an 8-month-old whose messy diaper I was in the process of changing. By the time they're 2 or 3, though, I'd be shifting away from cutesy words.

In my family of origin we "made bee'yem" -- I was much older before I understood that "BM" wasn't a word but stood for "bowel movement"! And since I was Jewish, the word for one's rear end was "tushy," the kiddie form of the Yiddish "tuchas" (pronounced tookh'ess). The only other word I remember in this context is the one my family used for fart ... =blushes with embarrassment= "boopsie" (pronounced to rhyme with book-see) .

When woofiegrrl was little we used pee and poop as a compromise between clinical terms and offensively cutesy ones. Body parts were standard terms, although in 1981 when she was born even "vagina" was fairly new for PC parents to use with little girls ... "vulva" wasn't even the horizon yet, so it wasn't an issue, we just called the whole structure her vagina.

I used to have difficulty deciding with what to call excretory functions in general until I went through the long hospitalizations with my late husband and found that all the nurses invariably used "pee" and "poop," and figured if they were good enough for the nurses they were good enough for me.

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

Re: Santa, etc.

What my parents did when I was a kid was they told us about the real St. Nicholas and then explained that Santa and reindeer and everything was a fun game that everyone liked to play at Christmas time. So we still got to have the fun of Santa, without the trauma of being lied to. I think that's a good happy medium I'll use with my kids.

(Of course, it didn't always work. Cultural programming is powerful as it turns out. When I was 4 or so, my mom took me to the mall to sit on "Santa's" lap. She had already explained that this was a game and he was playing dress-up. We got to the mall and I saw him and yelled, "Mom! It's the real Santa!" and ran right up to him. Oh well, she tried. (: )

[rho]

Some of these were awkward to answer, because it very much depends on the situation. In general, I'd try to follow the parents' lead, and just use whatever terms the kid was used to, and if I didn't know that, try to use terms which were east likely to be offensive while avoiding being painfually naff. On the off chance that I ever have children of my own, I'd plan to talk to them exactly as I'd talk to anyone else, though I'm not sure how that would turn out.

Oh, and for the first question, I'd probably say "have you hurt yourself?" or similar, thus avoiding the issue enirely.

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

Cultural difference here (I'm Anglo-Italian, in the UK) - Santa is not the same as Father Christmas is not the same as Saint Nicholas is not the same as La Befana... We don't do 'Santa' full stop. Father Christmas has a somewhat different history and demeanour, although for the time being he does bring presents. (My son's 2, he hasn't a clue really, but there's a Santa/FC figure in some of his books.) The Easter Bunny isn't something I grew up with (we don't do Trick-or-Treat either) so we won't be bothering, but we will probably have some kind of minimal Tooth Fairy ritual and I'm liking the idea of celebrating Soul Cake Day. :D

My GP says 'wee and poo', and when she did use 'shit' in conversation with me she blushed rather a lot. She's pretty much the only person I'd discuss my own excretory functions with in any detail, I expect.

[zannechaos.livejournal.com]

The only time I'd discuss bathroom functions with anyone would be a doctor, and then, it'd be clinically correct terminology. o_O;

As far as these terms...

Horsie - I've never used this. Not even as a child. I checked the box because I wanted to mention this. "Horse" was one of the earliest words in my vocab, along with "turtle". Mom said I used to correct adults in an annoyed tone of voice that no, tyvm, it was 'horse', not 'horsie' when they'd try to talk to me. ::snerk::

Kitty/Pussycat; Duckie; Piggy; Bunny; Doggie; Choo-choo - with the exception of 'choo-choo', depending on my mood and the critter in question, I still use these words. ::snerk:: Horses are far too incredible to get slapped with an 'ie', I guess. But I'm more inclined to use 'duckie' and 'piggy' in regard to ducklings and piglets. Bunny is a common word I probably use more often than 'rabbit' (if only because of plotbunnies!) and 'kitty' gets quite a bit of use too. 'Doggie' I use the least out of the lot, as I'm more inclined to call a puppy a puppy. But 'doggie' has its place, particularly... hmm... not necessarily sarcasm, I'm having trouble pinning down the word, but I don't usually use it in a time of cutesy. An example would be "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'good doggie' while reaching for a big rock."

[conuly]

I bring it up because, well, first, I wanna be complete, and secondly, because *I* mention it. I'll run for the bathroom "Can't talk gotta pee!" if that's the situation :)

[conuly]

I wasn't sure how to deal with large-scale cultural differences, so I just stuck it in and waited for comments :) Should've put "other" in, though... drat.

We didn't do the Easter Bunny story in my family, but we dyed and hid eggs anyway. 'cuz it's fun.

[zannechaos.livejournal.com]

I tend to use a more generic, "Excuse me, I need to stop by the restroom." The specifics of what I'm doing and why don't need to be mentioned. ^_^

[tellinellen.livejournal.com]

i think that for myself and with kids, i use both cutesie slang and real terms. it depends on the situation, what the kid is used to saying, etc.

i understand your issue with the misuse of the word vagina, but i don't think kids need to know all the specific landmarks down there, so it doesn't really bother me. i guess if all little girls referred to the whole area as "vulva" it would be more appropriate (though then the vagina would be left out), but i guess the thing is simply that people are not comfortable w the word vulva.

what was that last question? i clicked moose, but i had no idea what i was saying by doing so.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I don't have set terms I use. I'd say what came to mind. I'd probably use the proper terms. Or I might say, "Oh, you hurt yourself". Or something else.

[conuly]

In reverse order:

1. Last question's just a ticky box
2. Hee. Considering that a lot of adults get by without knowing what their own body is like, I agree - it just seems strange to say you're using the right term when you're not.
3. Fair 'nuff.

[innerbrat]

"Sweetie, it's just not polite to touch your privates in public. And it's not polite to touch anyone else's either. That's a private area."

And later you can explain that it's not just because it's to do with wee, which is a rude thing.

If she knows that weeing and pooing in public is rude, she'll accept that touching the wee and poo areas in public is rude.

[conuly]

If she knows that weeing and pooing in public is rude, she'll accept that touching the wee and poo areas in public is rude.

I don't know if she knows that. She knows that she can go on the toilet (and if she hasn't had a diaper on, she prefers that nowadays) and she knows she can go in a diaper (and sometimes she'll still say "I want diaper on!" when she means she has to go, but I don't know how... advanced... her understanding is on the whole subject.

[sunnydale47.livejournal.com]

I chose as best I could without knowing the age of the hypothetical child I was talking to -- I would have done better with checkboxes instead of radio buttons, so I could have marked more than one. With very little ones I do succumb to using baby-talk terms -- I can even imagine myself saying "Did you make a poopie?!" to an 8-month-old whose messy diaper I was in the process of changing. By the time they're 2 or 3, though, I'd be shifting away from cutesy words.

In my family of origin we "made bee'yem" -- I was much older before I understood that "BM" wasn't a word but stood for "bowel movement"! And since I was Jewish, the word for one's rear end was "tushy," the kiddie form of the Yiddish "tuchas" (pronounced tookh'ess). The only other word I remember in this context is the one my family used for fart ... =blushes with embarrassment= "boopsie" (pronounced to rhyme with book-see) .

When woofiegrrl was little we used pee and poop as a compromise between clinical terms and offensively cutesy ones. Body parts were standard terms, although in 1981 when she was born even "vagina" was fairly new for PC parents to use with little girls ... "vulva" wasn't even the horizon yet, so it wasn't an issue, we just called the whole structure her vagina.

I used to have difficulty deciding with what to call excretory functions in general until I went through the long hospitalizations with my late husband and found that all the nurses invariably used "pee" and "poop," and figured if they were good enough for the nurses they were good enough for me.