More on Santa...

[conuly]

(Link taken from sophiaserpentia)

I'll be upfront and say that the woman should not have broken the news the way she did.

But, really, it wouldn't've been a problem if these parents hadn't lied to their children. That's one of the first quotes we see - "Why did you lie?" The kid's not mad because the teacher told them Santa isn't real, the kid's mad that her mom lied to her.

This isn't like religion, where your kid comes home crying because somebody told him that he's going to Hell for not being a member of The One True Faith^TM. In that case, you can make a clear point that you're not actually lying to your child - you're telling the truth as you know it, just like everyone does. You can point out that nobody really knows (again, unlike Santa). You can have a nice, long, edifying talk. What do you do when the kid accuses you of lying, and you really are?

I'm not opposed to the Santa game when it's a game. When I let Ana push me down, then help me up, I don't think she really believes that she can force me to fall down, nor that I can't get up without her help. That's a game. Or, when I go on a hunt for the tickle-monster, I don't think she really believes in the tickle-monster - it's just another game. So if some other adult were to go up to her and say "Sweetie, there's no tickle-monster", I don't think she'd start crying - I in no way try to act as though it's not a game.

But the whole Santa thing... ugh. It's not just the lie, it's the whole frakkin' conspiracy.

Comments

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Agreed. When I was a child, I was told, point blank, there is no Santa. (We were a muslim household, so didn't celebrate christmas either). I told one of my classmates in Kindergarden that there was no Santa, she bawled to the teacher, teacher yelled at me, parents of the brat called MY parents and bitched them out... Seriously, grow up. It's a LIE. Why do parents insist on lying to their children? Eventually, so I didn't feel so left out during Christmas, we decided to exchange presents, and *wink wink, nudge nudge* the santa bit. It was all in fun, everyone knew the truth, and I honestly think it was a better way to deal with the situation then years of lying.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Oh how horrible, a substitute teacher taught the children something they didn't know. How dare she.

I hate when parents lie to children. I think it's a very fundamental betrayal. Watching parents and kids interact with mall santas often sickens me.

My parents did the tooth fairy thing, but it was always clear to me that there wasn't an actual tooth fairy, it was just a nice, fun thing. As I got older, but was still losing teeth, I'd sometimes just hand over the tooth during the daytime and wait to see what I got. Plus, the tooth fairy in my house wasn't limited to some specific thing to leave... it was more a, something nice will be left under your pillow. One tooth I totally scored and received like three of the Oz books that I was really into at the time.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I grew up knowing my dad was the "Tooth Prince". Heh.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

This year Quinn was indoctrinated, not only with Santa but Baby Jesus, too! I have never had this problem before. I cannot get over the sheer rudeness of the teacher. She knows she has kids of all faiths in her classroom. It wasn't treated as a game, either. This woman took it upon herself to teach it all as the one & only truth. So I get to be the bad guy that has to explain that we don't celebrate Christmas & Santa isn't coming & what we believe about Jesus.

If every other teacher/carer we've had could have some respect, why couldn't she too?

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* Don't put a teacher in the position of perpetuating a lie. Don't lie to your kids. Problem solved.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Excuse me?

How is my having different beliefs to the mainstream lying?

[conuly]

It isn't, and I didn't say it is! I said that if somebody else accuses you of lying, you can say that you aren't - because you're not, you're telling the truth as you see it, the same way they tell the truth that they see.

But the whole Santa conspiracy, if you're putting out gifts labeled "Santa" and eating cookies made for Santa, and making fake footprints from the fireplace, and standing outside at midnight shaking a few bells, it's clear that you are, in fact, lying.

[conuly]

Gah. Nevermind. Wrong person to reply to.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Not only that, I'm actually with you. I was mad because the teacher indoctrinated him with what I consider to be myths. I thought you knew I was pagan.

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I didn't know telling your children that a big fat man dressed all in red flies around the world in one night, riding a sleigh led by eight tiny reindeer, carrying a sack full of toys for all the worlds children, descends every fireplace, and deposits toys under the tree, and into stockings was a belief... I thought it was a fairy tale.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I. Didn't.

The. Teacher. Did.

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Sorry, lack of sleep. I thought you were saying that telling the kids it was a fairy tale, and not true was wrong, because it was actually true, and that parents weren't lying to their kids about it being untrue.

You know what? Yes, I am an idiot... totally blamming lack of sleep, and a screwed up sleep schedule since Solstice night. My apologies.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Accepted. I keep vigil, too(& am an insomniac). ;-)

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Thank you for not holding my frozen brain against me. Really, normally, I'm not this dense. This whole lying to your kids, only to shatter their reality when they get older thing, I find.... repulsive. I know, that's MY opinion, and not necessarily anyone elses... I like how I was taught it better. "There was a man, once upon a time, a long time ago. He's not here anymore, but we still keep his ideas alive by pretending"... so every year, parents would ask "What do you want Santa to bring you?" If I said I didn't beleive in santa, they'd giggle, and waggle their finger, and say "but then you'll only get half of your presents!" It was cute, and fun, and no one was lied to.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I think it has something to do with the religious climate at the moment, here, which is nigh as bad as it is in the States. In 14 years, I have never had a teacher be so damned rude. I told her at the beginning of the year that we were pagan and that I didn't want him taught any of those religious holiday things as truth. I have had that conversation with all teachers and carers until they were old enough to tell the teacher themselves. If I wasn't confident that I'll never have to deal with her again, I would have had it out with her(it was the last day of school that I really found out). Then his father, who's agnostic, had to tell me off for trying to make Quinn(the child)understand when he kept asking about Santa coming because he hates any 'rocking of the boat'.
This post of Connie's has just brought up all those feelings again. Ugh.

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Stuff like that I just don't understand. He wasn't even born in December! Never mind an exact like like the 25th! I was muslim as a child, and tried so hard to not be a part of christmas stuff... but for a week, we'd all go down to the gym, and sing cristmas carols for the whole morning. The entire school. NO ONE was allowed to sit out. I'm sorry, singing praises of how my soul was saved because of some guy that may or may not have existed, in a religion that has nothing to do with mine, really ticked me off. Finally, I got the guts, and just told my teacher off, and how she was offending me, and other kids who didn't beleive in it... so we were allowed to sit in the library for the mornings, and study.

Didn't change the OTHER Stuff that was done in class, and what not... This was PUBLIC SCHOOL. Why the heck was religion brought into it like that?

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I don't know but it's damned rude.

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Agreed. When I was a child, I was told, point blank, there is no Santa. (We were a muslim household, so didn't celebrate christmas either). I told one of my classmates in Kindergarden that there was no Santa, she bawled to the teacher, teacher yelled at me, parents of the brat called MY parents and bitched them out... Seriously, grow up. It's a LIE. Why do parents insist on lying to their children? Eventually, so I didn't feel so left out during Christmas, we decided to exchange presents, and *wink wink, nudge nudge* the santa bit. It was all in fun, everyone knew the truth, and I honestly think it was a better way to deal with the situation then years of lying.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Oh how horrible, a substitute teacher taught the children something they didn't know. How dare she.

I hate when parents lie to children. I think it's a very fundamental betrayal. Watching parents and kids interact with mall santas often sickens me.

My parents did the tooth fairy thing, but it was always clear to me that there wasn't an actual tooth fairy, it was just a nice, fun thing. As I got older, but was still losing teeth, I'd sometimes just hand over the tooth during the daytime and wait to see what I got. Plus, the tooth fairy in my house wasn't limited to some specific thing to leave... it was more a, something nice will be left under your pillow. One tooth I totally scored and received like three of the Oz books that I was really into at the time.

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I grew up knowing my dad was the "Tooth Prince". Heh.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

This year Quinn was indoctrinated, not only with Santa but Baby Jesus, too! I have never had this problem before. I cannot get over the sheer rudeness of the teacher. She knows she has kids of all faiths in her classroom. It wasn't treated as a game, either. This woman took it upon herself to teach it all as the one & only truth. So I get to be the bad guy that has to explain that we don't celebrate Christmas & Santa isn't coming & what we believe about Jesus.

If every other teacher/carer we've had could have some respect, why couldn't she too?

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* Don't put a teacher in the position of perpetuating a lie. Don't lie to your kids. Problem solved.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Excuse me?

How is my having different beliefs to the mainstream lying?

[conuly]

It isn't, and I didn't say it is! I said that if somebody else accuses you of lying, you can say that you aren't - because you're not, you're telling the truth as you see it, the same way they tell the truth that they see.

But the whole Santa conspiracy, if you're putting out gifts labeled "Santa" and eating cookies made for Santa, and making fake footprints from the fireplace, and standing outside at midnight shaking a few bells, it's clear that you are, in fact, lying.

[conuly]

Gah. Nevermind. Wrong person to reply to.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Not only that, I'm actually with you. I was mad because the teacher indoctrinated him with what I consider to be myths. I thought you knew I was pagan.

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I didn't know telling your children that a big fat man dressed all in red flies around the world in one night, riding a sleigh led by eight tiny reindeer, carrying a sack full of toys for all the worlds children, descends every fireplace, and deposits toys under the tree, and into stockings was a belief... I thought it was a fairy tale.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I. Didn't.

The. Teacher. Did.

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Sorry, lack of sleep. I thought you were saying that telling the kids it was a fairy tale, and not true was wrong, because it was actually true, and that parents weren't lying to their kids about it being untrue.

You know what? Yes, I am an idiot... totally blamming lack of sleep, and a screwed up sleep schedule since Solstice night. My apologies.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Accepted. I keep vigil, too(& am an insomniac). ;-)

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Thank you for not holding my frozen brain against me. Really, normally, I'm not this dense. This whole lying to your kids, only to shatter their reality when they get older thing, I find.... repulsive. I know, that's MY opinion, and not necessarily anyone elses... I like how I was taught it better. "There was a man, once upon a time, a long time ago. He's not here anymore, but we still keep his ideas alive by pretending"... so every year, parents would ask "What do you want Santa to bring you?" If I said I didn't beleive in santa, they'd giggle, and waggle their finger, and say "but then you'll only get half of your presents!" It was cute, and fun, and no one was lied to.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I think it has something to do with the religious climate at the moment, here, which is nigh as bad as it is in the States. In 14 years, I have never had a teacher be so damned rude. I told her at the beginning of the year that we were pagan and that I didn't want him taught any of those religious holiday things as truth. I have had that conversation with all teachers and carers until they were old enough to tell the teacher themselves. If I wasn't confident that I'll never have to deal with her again, I would have had it out with her(it was the last day of school that I really found out). Then his father, who's agnostic, had to tell me off for trying to make Quinn(the child)understand when he kept asking about Santa coming because he hates any 'rocking of the boat'.
This post of Connie's has just brought up all those feelings again. Ugh.

[kayt-arminta.livejournal.com]

Stuff like that I just don't understand. He wasn't even born in December! Never mind an exact like like the 25th! I was muslim as a child, and tried so hard to not be a part of christmas stuff... but for a week, we'd all go down to the gym, and sing cristmas carols for the whole morning. The entire school. NO ONE was allowed to sit out. I'm sorry, singing praises of how my soul was saved because of some guy that may or may not have existed, in a religion that has nothing to do with mine, really ticked me off. Finally, I got the guts, and just told my teacher off, and how she was offending me, and other kids who didn't beleive in it... so we were allowed to sit in the library for the mornings, and study.

Didn't change the OTHER Stuff that was done in class, and what not... This was PUBLIC SCHOOL. Why the heck was religion brought into it like that?

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I don't know but it's damned rude.