Random last-year link on Santa...

[conuly]

Interesting post.

I'm only posting it to quote a specific comment:

I bet you don't believe in imaginary friends, either. Your world sounds so sterile and literal.

WTF is that supposed to mean? Of course he doesn't believe in imaginary friends! 'cuz they're imaginary. That's the meaning of the word!

What Anonymous means, of course, is "don't think they're appropriate", which is something else altogether. It's also a straw man - people don't lie to their kids about imaginary friends. People *do* lie to their kids about Santa. Children aren't expected to actually believe their imaginary friends are real. They *are* expected to believe that Santa is real. Whether or not you consider this a bad thing, the two things are not comprable.

Don't believe in imaginary friends. What a nonsensical set of words. It's like complimenting Shrubboy by calling him an incredible speaker. Not only are you wrong in the sense that you mean the word, but you're right in the literal etymology which nobody uses - he is quite honestly not credible. Whee, tangent!

Comments

[fledchen.livejournal.com]

My mother calls Bush "incredible" when she's in company wherein it would not be wise to reveal her opinion in a more obvious manner.

[deceptica]

I misread "Santaism" as "Satanism" at first.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I don't remember any huge trauma when I stopped believing in Father Christmas. In fact, I don't even remember it happening. Shows how awful the event must have been.

I'm 20 and my brother's 24 and we will still, on Christmas Day, first open stockings and our 'present from Santa' as will our 30something cousin staying with us. Sometimes there'll also be a present from Santa for Dad, sometimes for the whole family (I've been known to have a word in his ear some years regarding the latter of those) and so on. It's a very important part of the Christmas tradition for our family.

And it was only a couple of years ago that I realised Santa's present was always something that would keep my brother and I occupied whilst Mum got up (stockings and Santa are done whilst we're in pyjamas/dressing gown, except for my father who requires waking several times and will then shower and properly get up - that's as much tradition as anything else) and then breakfast was made and cleared. Basically to keep up busy until presents were unwrapped. But now my brother and I are capable of entertaining ourselves for that time (and of course are more likely to be assisting) - a couple of years ago we spent the time showing each other flash animations, last year we watched the Weebl and Bob advent calendar on my computer.

Man, suddenly I want Christmas to be tomorrow.

[conuly]

I don't know that I ever believed in Santa. I'm not sure if this is so much a result of conscious effort on my parent's parts, or the fact that my dad looked like Santa. A lot. It gets hard to maintain your belief when here it is, July, and little kids are running up to your dad yelling "Papa Natali! Papa Natali!", and he's smiling and being friendly, walking the fine line between not disabusing them of their notions and yet, not lying to them - and then after they're gone he uses his favorite phrase ever: "Bah. Humbug".

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

People give kids way too little credit. Realizing that Santa is not real isn't traumatizing. To me, it was the same thing as realizing that brownies really don't exist (I always wanted one), and that no, there are no little green men on Mars. I really hate when people get all "There is no benefit to Santa!" Yes, yes there is. There is no harm in letting there be magic in your kid's life. I still got presents from my parents then, and I still get presents from Santa now-- because it's fun, and nostalgic.

In fact the only people I know of who claim to be traumatized are currently self-indulgent wanks that'll bitch about the oppressive qualities of the color blue if given the chance.

[conuly]

There's a difference - a big difference - between saying there's no benefit to Santa and saying that there's harm in Santa.

I agree that your average child is unlikely to be traumatized by Santa. However, I continue to feel that it's inappropriate to conspire to lie to a child. There can be magic in your kid's life without lying to them.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

I'm in the camp of people that weren't traumatized by realizing Santa wasn't real, just by how my family handled it. Same with the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and all the other assorted things. My parents were seriously into using any excuse to spend money on or have special rituals with my brother and I. You know they're a little nutty when they declare St. Patrick's Day the day for giving us green toys and cupcakes..!

In my case, the actual realization wasn't particularly different from growing out of anything else my little brother was into. It was pretty much "little kids like Duplo blocks while I get Lego blocks, they get colored stacking toys and I get computer stuff, they get diapers while I wear sanitary pads, they're terrified of the dark and I'm not, they believe in Santa and I don't..."

This year, interestingly, we're not celebrating Christmas with gifts at all, just breakfast with my father and dinner/dessert with my mother. (I'm going to surprise my father, at least, by showing up with cookies or cupcakes or something. :) They're only willing to do it because money is tight, but I'm glad we're doing it because the gift-giving/receiving is always so stressful!

[conuly]

Weirdly, even though I continue to believe that Santa-is-to-be-believed is inappropriate, I never thought it was traumatizing. Just... inappropriate.

I think it's the conspiracy aspect, actually. I don't mind telling children other outrageous lies, like "Your mother really, truly has an extra pair of eyes!" or "Aren't you scared of the invisible tickle-monster under your bed?" or, once, "HURRY! BEFORE THE GRASS EATS YOU!", but conspiring to lie, and to lie in a believable way other than one which clearly indicates that you're not being totally honest... that's something else.

Then there's my general annoyance with Christmas movies where the whole point is that the unfortunate person didn't believe in Santa. Hello? Santa? It's about believing in God. Or not, whatever, but I find it rather tasteless all the same. Irritates the crap out of me.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that some of my internet friends are imaginary, because they're too awesome to be real.

[adiva_calandia]

Ditto.

[conuly]

Oh? Who?

[raleighj.livejournal.com]

My parents are firmly against pretending Santa Claus exists. We still play around with the idea, though...we got presents from "Mommy and Daddy Claus" at Christmas time when we were little, and we had lots of laughs about Dad getting all the cookies that we baked and left for "Santa."

The only problem that arose was when my little brothers told some their friends that Santa didn't exist. Creating quite a big crisis for at least two neighbor kids. It WAS traumatic for the neighbor boys, if only because my brothers were effectively calling their parents liars.

Henceforth the "we don't say anything about Santa not existing, ok?" rule has been enforced...over the quite vocal objections of my brothers, who say, "but that's lying!"

[conuly]

we got presents from "Mommy and Daddy Claus" at Christmas time when we were little, and we had lots of laughs about Dad getting all the cookies that we baked and left for "Santa."

And that's the sort of make-believe I am firmly in favor of.

[fledchen.livejournal.com]

My mother calls Bush "incredible" when she's in company wherein it would not be wise to reveal her opinion in a more obvious manner.

[deceptica]

I misread "Santaism" as "Satanism" at first.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I don't remember any huge trauma when I stopped believing in Father Christmas. In fact, I don't even remember it happening. Shows how awful the event must have been.

I'm 20 and my brother's 24 and we will still, on Christmas Day, first open stockings and our 'present from Santa' as will our 30something cousin staying with us. Sometimes there'll also be a present from Santa for Dad, sometimes for the whole family (I've been known to have a word in his ear some years regarding the latter of those) and so on. It's a very important part of the Christmas tradition for our family.

And it was only a couple of years ago that I realised Santa's present was always something that would keep my brother and I occupied whilst Mum got up (stockings and Santa are done whilst we're in pyjamas/dressing gown, except for my father who requires waking several times and will then shower and properly get up - that's as much tradition as anything else) and then breakfast was made and cleared. Basically to keep up busy until presents were unwrapped. But now my brother and I are capable of entertaining ourselves for that time (and of course are more likely to be assisting) - a couple of years ago we spent the time showing each other flash animations, last year we watched the Weebl and Bob advent calendar on my computer.

Man, suddenly I want Christmas to be tomorrow.

[conuly]

I don't know that I ever believed in Santa. I'm not sure if this is so much a result of conscious effort on my parent's parts, or the fact that my dad looked like Santa. A lot. It gets hard to maintain your belief when here it is, July, and little kids are running up to your dad yelling "Papa Natali! Papa Natali!", and he's smiling and being friendly, walking the fine line between not disabusing them of their notions and yet, not lying to them - and then after they're gone he uses his favorite phrase ever: "Bah. Humbug".

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

People give kids way too little credit. Realizing that Santa is not real isn't traumatizing. To me, it was the same thing as realizing that brownies really don't exist (I always wanted one), and that no, there are no little green men on Mars. I really hate when people get all "There is no benefit to Santa!" Yes, yes there is. There is no harm in letting there be magic in your kid's life. I still got presents from my parents then, and I still get presents from Santa now-- because it's fun, and nostalgic.

In fact the only people I know of who claim to be traumatized are currently self-indulgent wanks that'll bitch about the oppressive qualities of the color blue if given the chance.

[conuly]

There's a difference - a big difference - between saying there's no benefit to Santa and saying that there's harm in Santa.

I agree that your average child is unlikely to be traumatized by Santa. However, I continue to feel that it's inappropriate to conspire to lie to a child. There can be magic in your kid's life without lying to them.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

I'm in the camp of people that weren't traumatized by realizing Santa wasn't real, just by how my family handled it. Same with the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and all the other assorted things. My parents were seriously into using any excuse to spend money on or have special rituals with my brother and I. You know they're a little nutty when they declare St. Patrick's Day the day for giving us green toys and cupcakes..!

In my case, the actual realization wasn't particularly different from growing out of anything else my little brother was into. It was pretty much "little kids like Duplo blocks while I get Lego blocks, they get colored stacking toys and I get computer stuff, they get diapers while I wear sanitary pads, they're terrified of the dark and I'm not, they believe in Santa and I don't..."

This year, interestingly, we're not celebrating Christmas with gifts at all, just breakfast with my father and dinner/dessert with my mother. (I'm going to surprise my father, at least, by showing up with cookies or cupcakes or something. :) They're only willing to do it because money is tight, but I'm glad we're doing it because the gift-giving/receiving is always so stressful!

[conuly]

Weirdly, even though I continue to believe that Santa-is-to-be-believed is inappropriate, I never thought it was traumatizing. Just... inappropriate.

I think it's the conspiracy aspect, actually. I don't mind telling children other outrageous lies, like "Your mother really, truly has an extra pair of eyes!" or "Aren't you scared of the invisible tickle-monster under your bed?" or, once, "HURRY! BEFORE THE GRASS EATS YOU!", but conspiring to lie, and to lie in a believable way other than one which clearly indicates that you're not being totally honest... that's something else.

Then there's my general annoyance with Christmas movies where the whole point is that the unfortunate person didn't believe in Santa. Hello? Santa? It's about believing in God. Or not, whatever, but I find it rather tasteless all the same. Irritates the crap out of me.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that some of my internet friends are imaginary, because they're too awesome to be real.

[adiva_calandia]

Ditto.

[conuly]

Oh? Who?

[raleighj.livejournal.com]

My parents are firmly against pretending Santa Claus exists. We still play around with the idea, though...we got presents from "Mommy and Daddy Claus" at Christmas time when we were little, and we had lots of laughs about Dad getting all the cookies that we baked and left for "Santa."

The only problem that arose was when my little brothers told some their friends that Santa didn't exist. Creating quite a big crisis for at least two neighbor kids. It WAS traumatic for the neighbor boys, if only because my brothers were effectively calling their parents liars.

Henceforth the "we don't say anything about Santa not existing, ok?" rule has been enforced...over the quite vocal objections of my brothers, who say, "but that's lying!"

[conuly]

we got presents from "Mommy and Daddy Claus" at Christmas time when we were little, and we had lots of laughs about Dad getting all the cookies that we baked and left for "Santa."

And that's the sort of make-believe I am firmly in favor of.