Absurd statement of the day...

[conuly]

"I thought I was engaged in an intelligent and spiritual discussion of homosexuality based on biblical interpretations with a self-proclaimed Lesbian claiming the Bible supports homosexuality."

So, wait, what? All youse gay folks have to pass a test or something to be gay? And here I am thinking that your sexuality is one of those things that you kinda have to proclaim for yourself. Just, y'know, because.

Self-proclaimed is one of those terms that people really ought to stop using, because it doesn't mean what they think it means.

Comments

[innerbrat]

The test maybe sexual congress with a member of the same sex?

Oh, I don't know.

[conuly]

So, if you've ever had sex with somebody of your own sex, you're gay (even if there were Special Circumstances, whatever those might be), and if you haven't, you're not...?

[threeoranges.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of the Doonesbury cartoon where a man states he's gay and the woman responds with "*gasp!* Are they sure?" ;)

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Try being somewhere between the extremes.
Especially with 'net bi-ness being so popular(it's like being a gate gay).
Noone takes me seriously. Ever.

[conuly]

Maybe it's because you have such an adowable little icon. *chucks the evil under the chin*

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

INIGO: "You keep using that word -- I do not think it means what you think it means."

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Such a useful quote ...

[dkmnow.livejournal.com]

"So, wait, what? All youse gay folks have to pass a test or something to be gay?"

Actually, there's even more in-fighting about who gets to wear which label in the GLBTI crowd than there is in the "autism spectrum" crowd. Infinitely more. Go figure.

[conuly]

That's... really stupid.

[snale.livejournal.com]

Of course, I agree that the term doesn't apply to situations like the one you mention -- whether a person is gay, or likes the color blue, or enjoys Marx Brothers movies. There are no credentials to prove these things, because they're simply preferences. As you say, "self-proclaimed" doesn't even make sense here, since there's no other way to know if someone is gay other than them telling you so.

On the other hand, "Self-proclaimed" can be useful. Like, say some yokel with a website claims he's a doctor and he recommends drinking 8 glasses of carrot juice every day to ward off cancer. I would think to myself, "this guy may not be a legit doctor" (no offense to carrot juice), and in writing about him, the quickest way of getting that across would be to call him a "self-proclaimed" doctor. I have no way of verifying if he is a doctor, and I suspect he hasn't got the credentials. Yes, it's an insult, but sometimes even insulting language can be useful.

Basically, I guess I feel that words (or phrases) themselves shouldn't be pulled out of circulation, just because people often misuse them. Even their misuse can be informative. In a way, it's a tell -- when people use language incorrectly, especially insulting language, they've shown their hand. Just from reading that one sentence you posted up there, I feel I can tell a LOT about the person who wrote it. :)

[conuly]

Well, I suppose the phrase *does* mean what you think it means, so you have the Official Conuly Stamp of Approval. *thwacks your head with a big rubber stamp* You can use that phrase if you so desire. This stamp is not valid for exchange or refund, void where prohibited.

[maelorin]

"self-proclaimed" is not the only part of that sentence that has me doing a double-take.

it seems to me that a great many people of certain religious persuasions have difficulty accepting that homosexuality is a topic for rational discussion at all.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

Heh. I wrote a rant about that term (http://griffen.livejournal.com/222388.html?nc=10) about three years ago.

[peaseblossom03.livejournal.com]

The one that gets me is "Self-proclaimed Wiccan" (or variation thereof).

[conuly]

Because we all know that Wicca is a religion with a strict orthodoxy and conversion requirements....

[jeffreysmith.livejournal.com]

I call myself an autist because I'm thoroughly convinced I am one. But no one has ever tested or evaluated me, and since at my age and circumstances I don't foresee any benefits--and possible disadvantages--to be being formally certified as being on the spectrum, I am and will remain a "self proclaimed aspie"--which can be important in certain contexts.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

"Self-proclaimed autistics" seems to be a great one for dismissing us lately.

As if the vast majority of us would make it up or something.

[conuly]

Didn't you know? It's *cool* to be autistic, and that means that you can do whatever you want and live in the lap of luxury for doing nuthin'!

[raleighj.livejournal.com]

Huh. I think I really need context, here. I interpreted this as, "I thought I was engaged in a discussion about homosexuality from a Christian/Biblical perspective. The person I was talking to claimed to be a Lesbian." With the implied bit being, "however, none of this was the case. The person I was talking to didn't care a whit about interpretation of Biblical passages dealing with homosexuality, and wasn't even gay."

I interpreted "self-proclaimed" as meaning, "You've told me these things about yourself." Not as meaning, "I make myself these things by saying them," but as "I'm describing something about myself."

[conuly]

ReligiousTolerance.org, normally a good reference, has recently been accepting some... interesting articles. This one is under NEW ARTICLES for last month.

[innerbrat]

The test maybe sexual congress with a member of the same sex?

Oh, I don't know.

[conuly]

So, if you've ever had sex with somebody of your own sex, you're gay (even if there were Special Circumstances, whatever those might be), and if you haven't, you're not...?

[threeoranges.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of the Doonesbury cartoon where a man states he's gay and the woman responds with "*gasp!* Are they sure?" ;)

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Try being somewhere between the extremes.
Especially with 'net bi-ness being so popular(it's like being a gate gay).
Noone takes me seriously. Ever.

[conuly]

Maybe it's because you have such an adowable little icon. *chucks the evil under the chin*

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

INIGO: "You keep using that word -- I do not think it means what you think it means."

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Such a useful quote ...

[dkmnow.livejournal.com]

"So, wait, what? All youse gay folks have to pass a test or something to be gay?"

Actually, there's even more in-fighting about who gets to wear which label in the GLBTI crowd than there is in the "autism spectrum" crowd. Infinitely more. Go figure.

[conuly]

That's... really stupid.

[snale.livejournal.com]

Of course, I agree that the term doesn't apply to situations like the one you mention -- whether a person is gay, or likes the color blue, or enjoys Marx Brothers movies. There are no credentials to prove these things, because they're simply preferences. As you say, "self-proclaimed" doesn't even make sense here, since there's no other way to know if someone is gay other than them telling you so.

On the other hand, "Self-proclaimed" can be useful. Like, say some yokel with a website claims he's a doctor and he recommends drinking 8 glasses of carrot juice every day to ward off cancer. I would think to myself, "this guy may not be a legit doctor" (no offense to carrot juice), and in writing about him, the quickest way of getting that across would be to call him a "self-proclaimed" doctor. I have no way of verifying if he is a doctor, and I suspect he hasn't got the credentials. Yes, it's an insult, but sometimes even insulting language can be useful.

Basically, I guess I feel that words (or phrases) themselves shouldn't be pulled out of circulation, just because people often misuse them. Even their misuse can be informative. In a way, it's a tell -- when people use language incorrectly, especially insulting language, they've shown their hand. Just from reading that one sentence you posted up there, I feel I can tell a LOT about the person who wrote it. :)

[conuly]

Well, I suppose the phrase *does* mean what you think it means, so you have the Official Conuly Stamp of Approval. *thwacks your head with a big rubber stamp* You can use that phrase if you so desire. This stamp is not valid for exchange or refund, void where prohibited.

[maelorin]

"self-proclaimed" is not the only part of that sentence that has me doing a double-take.

it seems to me that a great many people of certain religious persuasions have difficulty accepting that homosexuality is a topic for rational discussion at all.

[griffen.livejournal.com]

Heh. I wrote a rant about that term (http://griffen.livejournal.com/222388.html?nc=10) about three years ago.

[peaseblossom03.livejournal.com]

The one that gets me is "Self-proclaimed Wiccan" (or variation thereof).

[conuly]

Because we all know that Wicca is a religion with a strict orthodoxy and conversion requirements....

[jeffreysmith.livejournal.com]

I call myself an autist because I'm thoroughly convinced I am one. But no one has ever tested or evaluated me, and since at my age and circumstances I don't foresee any benefits--and possible disadvantages--to be being formally certified as being on the spectrum, I am and will remain a "self proclaimed aspie"--which can be important in certain contexts.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

"Self-proclaimed autistics" seems to be a great one for dismissing us lately.

As if the vast majority of us would make it up or something.

[conuly]

Didn't you know? It's *cool* to be autistic, and that means that you can do whatever you want and live in the lap of luxury for doing nuthin'!

[raleighj.livejournal.com]

Huh. I think I really need context, here. I interpreted this as, "I thought I was engaged in a discussion about homosexuality from a Christian/Biblical perspective. The person I was talking to claimed to be a Lesbian." With the implied bit being, "however, none of this was the case. The person I was talking to didn't care a whit about interpretation of Biblical passages dealing with homosexuality, and wasn't even gay."

I interpreted "self-proclaimed" as meaning, "You've told me these things about yourself." Not as meaning, "I make myself these things by saying them," but as "I'm describing something about myself."

[conuly]

ReligiousTolerance.org, normally a good reference, has recently been accepting some... interesting articles. This one is under NEW ARTICLES for last month.