Pair of links...
Sep. 22nd, 2005 06:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
conuly
At least one of these is a popular journal, so I don't have qualms about linking to them.
In the first one that I saw, we see a mother's reaction to her daughter's comment about not wanting kids. I already gave my feelings about that post in a comment there, but I can at least see that this is tied up with a bunch of other things for the mom, so, fine, we aren't always completely logical.
And, for comparison, the original post. Her ex is incredibly grown-up, but not grown-up enough to consider that if she wants a job and he wants kids, maybe she should work and he should stay home.... *shrugs* I don't know the guy.
It's the comments to the first post I saw that really get to me. The first chronological post has an implied criticism of her mom's choice to have kids? Where, exactly? Where she says "I'm not responsable or patient enough"? That kinda sounds like she's saying that her mom must be responsible and patient. That's a criticism now? Where her earlier thoughts of having kids were based on being mad at her parents, and she said she would raise her kids differently? But then she goes on to say she deserved being grounded at those times, and that she realized that her parents were doing their best? Sure, I suppose you could read that as "they were doing their best, but their best STILL SUCKED NYAH!", but I don't see it. I really don't. Maybe it's where she says she doesn't want to spend either her youth or her old age taking care of somebody else? Well, I suppose that *could* be a criticism - but I don't see that either. Nowhere does she say that it's not all right for other people to want kids - in fact, both there and in the comments, she mentions specific people who probably *are* suited for children.
This hurts because she's saying "she doesn't care enough about you to give you grandkids"? WTF? And when your kid becomes a teacher instead of a doctor, is that because they don't care enough about you to give you a doctor for a son? Indeed, in the comments to the original post, the mother said outright that she doesn't want grandkids at the moment. Even if she did, that's not the point. Doing something to please somebody else is always a bad choice. We all figured that one out the first time we ate those yucky mushrooms and realized how evil they were, and how they'd clearly brainwashed our families into thinking they weren't evil....
Note: I do think it's possible for her to change her mind. It's possible for everyone to change their mind about everything. I may even start eating those evil fun guys. There may be a greater chance of hell freezing over, but it's definitely *possible*. Comments about minds changing aren't relevant to any part of this conversation, though people *do* insist on bringing them up. If anybody's mind gets changed, I'm sure we'll all not care.
In the first one that I saw, we see a mother's reaction to her daughter's comment about not wanting kids. I already gave my feelings about that post in a comment there, but I can at least see that this is tied up with a bunch of other things for the mom, so, fine, we aren't always completely logical.
And, for comparison, the original post. Her ex is incredibly grown-up, but not grown-up enough to consider that if she wants a job and he wants kids, maybe she should work and he should stay home.... *shrugs* I don't know the guy.
It's the comments to the first post I saw that really get to me. The first chronological post has an implied criticism of her mom's choice to have kids? Where, exactly? Where she says "I'm not responsable or patient enough"? That kinda sounds like she's saying that her mom must be responsible and patient. That's a criticism now? Where her earlier thoughts of having kids were based on being mad at her parents, and she said she would raise her kids differently? But then she goes on to say she deserved being grounded at those times, and that she realized that her parents were doing their best? Sure, I suppose you could read that as "they were doing their best, but their best STILL SUCKED NYAH!", but I don't see it. I really don't. Maybe it's where she says she doesn't want to spend either her youth or her old age taking care of somebody else? Well, I suppose that *could* be a criticism - but I don't see that either. Nowhere does she say that it's not all right for other people to want kids - in fact, both there and in the comments, she mentions specific people who probably *are* suited for children.
This hurts because she's saying "she doesn't care enough about you to give you grandkids"? WTF? And when your kid becomes a teacher instead of a doctor, is that because they don't care enough about you to give you a doctor for a son? Indeed, in the comments to the original post, the mother said outright that she doesn't want grandkids at the moment. Even if she did, that's not the point. Doing something to please somebody else is always a bad choice. We all figured that one out the first time we ate those yucky mushrooms and realized how evil they were, and how they'd clearly brainwashed our families into thinking they weren't evil....
Note: I do think it's possible for her to change her mind. It's possible for everyone to change their mind about everything. I may even start eating those evil fun guys. There may be a greater chance of hell freezing over, but it's definitely *possible*. Comments about minds changing aren't relevant to any part of this conversation, though people *do* insist on bringing them up. If anybody's mind gets changed, I'm sure we'll all not care.
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no subject
Date: 2005-09-22 11:36 pm (UTC)The belief that one is not going to be a good parent for whatever reason -- that's a fair reason to avoid parenthood. Heck, any reason one feels comfortable with is a valid reason not to have kids. It's an enormous commitment and kudos to this young woman for a) recognizing her feelings and b) avoiding falling into a commitment trap with which she was uncomfortable.
The mother's comment was interesting because she used that shock to explore a more serious issue -- the rejection of a child by a parent. Whether you are a youth or an adult, such a disavowal is chilling. I think that she was simply acknowledging that powerful emotional connection which she felt upon her daughter's declaration, not seeing it as an attack upon herself, but as an imperfect echo of that painful past for the complicated parent/child moment.
(Full disclosure: I'm the parent of two preteen girls. If one or both decides to have kids when she's grown up, that's fine. If not, that's fine, too. I occasionally contemplate what my own life would be like without kids. All I can come up with is that it would have been remarkably easier, cheaper and simpler, but for me the trade-off of those is still worth it.)
no subject
Date: 2005-09-23 12:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-23 12:19 am (UTC)I used to mod discussion boards at iVillage and, let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing until you've spent a few hours on the boards that debate stay-at-home vs. work-out-of-the-home mothering. Sheesh! Vicious!
Sheesh
Date: 2005-09-23 12:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-23 01:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-22 11:36 pm (UTC)The belief that one is not going to be a good parent for whatever reason -- that's a fair reason to avoid parenthood. Heck, any reason one feels comfortable with is a valid reason not to have kids. It's an enormous commitment and kudos to this young woman for a) recognizing her feelings and b) avoiding falling into a commitment trap with which she was uncomfortable.
The mother's comment was interesting because she used that shock to explore a more serious issue -- the rejection of a child by a parent. Whether you are a youth or an adult, such a disavowal is chilling. I think that she was simply acknowledging that powerful emotional connection which she felt upon her daughter's declaration, not seeing it as an attack upon herself, but as an imperfect echo of that painful past for the complicated parent/child moment.
(Full disclosure: I'm the parent of two preteen girls. If one or both decides to have kids when she's grown up, that's fine. If not, that's fine, too. I occasionally contemplate what my own life would be like without kids. All I can come up with is that it would have been remarkably easier, cheaper and simpler, but for me the trade-off of those is still worth it.)
no subject
Date: 2005-09-23 12:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-23 12:19 am (UTC)I used to mod discussion boards at iVillage and, let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing until you've spent a few hours on the boards that debate stay-at-home vs. work-out-of-the-home mothering. Sheesh! Vicious!
Sheesh
Date: 2005-09-23 12:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-09-23 01:39 pm (UTC)