I have spent an eternity saying this.

[conuly]

Terri Schiavo is not on life support. She does not use a ventilator. I don't know where that story started, but here it ends. She is not hooked up to any machines. She uses a feeding tube. That is not life support. Taking her off the feeding tube will cause her to - slowly - starve or dehydrate.

There is evidence that she reacts to things around her. There is also evidence that her condition would be drastically improved if the money from the settlement had gone towards her treatment instead of her husband's court bills.

So please, base your opinions off of accurate information.

And now, I will let other people talk about being in situations where they were believed dead, and post those links (links I've posted before) about other people who nearly died because "after all, she's not going to recover, might as well pull the plug now" - and at the time, they were conscious.

Comments

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[conuly]

Insulin *is* something basic one needs to survive, Liz. Trust me, that's what diabetes is all about, realizing you need insulin...

Okay, what about a pacemaker? Or an iron lung, like people who had gotten polio used to be put in? They were conscious, so by your definition, that's not life support.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

well, yes, insulen is needed, naturally, but injecting it is different than making it. pacemaker, in something inserted in your body, and then you go around living your life. and iron lungs weren't permenant, right? (and, if you had to live in one forever, than i wouldn;t support it. get it? if you can't live a life approaching normal, then no, i don;t really agree with it, after a while. but, yeha, didn;t people come out of ion lungs (hey, i may be wrong on that...)

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[conuly]

if you can't live a life approaching normal, then no, i don;t really agree with it

So, wait, lemme get this straight. You're against abortion (of fetuses, which can't think, or breathe, or do anything, and are on what could loosely be called the *ultimate* life support) but you're pro killing-people-who-can't-fit-my-narrow-definition-of-a-normal-life? Gee, I bet Stephan Hawking is glad to hear that!

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[l33tminion]

This person is careless in how they use the word "approaching", but I doubt they are advocating the killing of the mentally ill or physically disabled. The way I've usually heard the argument phrased is usually "appreciable quality of life" (which is not precluded by mental illness or physical disability but may be precluded by continuous unconsciousness or continuous unbearable pain).

At any rate, I do agree that this position is inconsistent with opposing abortion.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

uh, yeah. because a fetus, after a certain amount of time, which is NOT indefinate, WILL breathe on it;s own (well, usually), etc.

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[leora.livejournal.com]

I can't live a life approaching normal. Even if I had no disabilities, I'd still be weird. Everyone said I was weird. Nobody who knows me thinks I'm normal.

I also can't live without food or liquid (iced tea by choice). I guess I'm on life support, because I need to be given something to drink to stay alive.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

right, but you can give it to yourself. and people say i am narrow minded. if a person cannot survive with these machines, and won't ever be able to then i feel no one should prolong thier suffering. a newborn who is a preemie doesn't count seeing as once that lung develops, they will be off the machine.

My aunt was losing all her bodily functions, including brain dfunction, though that loss was slower, and even if her mind recovered, her body would not, without EVERY organ being transplanted. she waould have been a physical veggie, if not also losing enough brain function to also be a mental veggie, and the decision was made to turn off her machines. and not ONE single person in the family, including her father regretted it.

Truthfully, this was a family desicion, and the idiot press shouldn;t have stuck their fucking noses in. IT'S NOT ANYONE BUT THE FAMILY'S BUSSINESS. nothing ANYONE not in a position of power can say will change the situation.

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[conuly]

The press didn't "stick their noses in", the family called in the press.

As for suffering, you don't know that people are suffering. You assume you know, but you don't. I'm not speaking for my friends who have "been there, done that". If they want to trek out here and talk to you, they can, and cite the research about depression, happiness even with chronic disease, and the near universal decision on the part of patients to say "no, sorry, don't kill me after all".

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

but the woman expressly said, way before she collapsed that she didn;t want to be kept alive like this.

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[conuly]

1. Where is the evidence for that? Hearsay?
2. Doesn't matter. A lot of people say that, about a lot of things - being in a wheelchair, having terminal cancer, being a quad. And yet most of them, after being in that situation, change their minds.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

ok, so she said it to her husband. hearsay my butt.

And she isn't in the situation where she can say anything, or even communicate that she understands what is said to her.

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[conuly]

That *is* hearsay, Lizziey! How stupid do you have to be to just say something like that? How do we know her husband isn't lying? Stupid! If you really mean something like this, you write it down and leave several copies in easily-located areas, such as in your wallet.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

true...if you ahve reason to believe that people won;t believe your husband, and everyone, including your parents, who no longer have much say over you, as you are an adult, and married, and they aren't your next of kin are going to do this...

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[conuly]

If you have reason to believe your husband may lie about your wishes to get the inheritance...?

It's beyond stupid to let somebody else have control over your life like that.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

he's already gotten the million. and her inheritence just can't be THAT large, aren't her parents still alive (hence the whole fight). so she hasn;t even inherited yet, right? and her parents can change their will at any time.

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[conuly]

Lizziey, have you been paying any attention? She got a massive insurance settlement. The money was supposed to go for her treatment. It never did.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

oh, that one. sorry. i just woke up. leave me alone. i'm off now. ttyl

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[gingembre.livejournal.com]

Maybe Lizziey is right, people who don't live an acceptable life by majority opinion simply should not be allowed to live. Too many people as it is are eating up our tax dollars with their dependence on life support devices such as pacemakers, insulin shots, asthma inhalers, and of course a ton of drugs. Even people with deadly diseaases such as AIDS are living for years now! And any baby that's born too early should just be allowed to die - clearly any baby born without a developed lung simply wasn't meant to have one. For that matter, majority opinion probably holds that only those people who lead productive lives should be here. After all, isn't that why we're cutting Social Security? Old people, go away! You're useless! And don't get me started on anyone living off of welfare - can't you just get off your butt? I say we kill them all.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

Connie, don't bother about this comment. i had to put it here since the person has childiashly blocked me. remind me to amend my friends list.

wow, the immaturity around here...mnaybe people who have issues with someone else for no good friggin reaon should be forced to discuss it, WITH THAT PERSON, rather than try, unsuccessfully, to insult them. because oddly enough, your little welfare insult is unfounded, as i am no longer on it. sorry, but MY husband makes enough to support us now.

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[gingembre.livejournal.com]

Maybe you did not read my comment. I agree with bridgetesteer, and her link to a post which discusses *current governmental attitudes* towards all sorts of people, not least of which are old people on Social Security. Perhaps if you look at the current rhetoric regarding these issues - including welfare, an issue that has continually been under attack by Republicans for at least the last 30 years - you will understand my comment. And if you do not support these attitudes, perhaps you should amend *your* comment.

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[gingembre.livejournal.com]

To clarify: This link (http://www.livejournal.com/~ginmar/398263.html)

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[gingembre.livejournal.com]

sorry, but MY husband makes enough to support us now.

I do hope you're not trying to insult my husband with this comment. It's a sad thing indeed if you value your own role as a stay at home parent so little.

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[lizziey.livejournal.com]

i wouldn't insult Abdul. I happen to like and respect him. He hasn;t done anything to me or my family to get the comment dierected to him, in fact, Frannie has told me about a couple times he and her have had discussions, and when he helped her to shovel the steps becasue she was having trouble, so in fact, the comment was NOT directed at him. i SHOULD have said, my spouse...since it was direcetd at you. I wasn't the one who got specific dierections on how to do my job, disregarded them, and lost a client a shitload of money.

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[gingembre.livejournal.com]

Actually, the story of how I lost my job is just that - a story. I didn't lose my job because I lost a client money. I didn't. If I had, I surely would not have gotten three months of severence pay plus my bonus. And as I work at a place now where people don't gossip like junior high schoolers, I really don't care.