A quick definition of "standard" language, and some other stuff.

[conuly]

Here it is. The standard dialect is the one spoken by the people in power. They're not in power because they speak the standard dialect, this is important, rather it's that this dialect became standard because it's the one spoken by the people in power, and everybody *without* power strives to emulate it, because they want to be able to become one of the people in power. Of course, the people in power don't really want that, so language changes on all sides.

And that's really about it.

Grammar, it should be noted, is not something typically developing children have to learn in school. The typically developing child generally has mastered his or her native grammar by the age of six. In fact, most people can't begin to describe the rules of their own grammar. For example, you probably couldn't tell me what the rules are governing the order of adjectives, but you know instinctively (if you're a native English speaker) that big red dog is correct, while red big dog isn't. That's grammar. Or, even though you make thousands of unique yes/no questions in your life, you probably can't, off the top of your head, tell me the rules which you use when making a yes/no question. More grammar.

Some people have tried writing down the grammars of various languages, with a good amount of success. And a comprehensive grammar of the English language will indeed explain the rules which govern the use of double negatives in English, or the invariant use of the verb "to be" (think AAVE/ebonics), or the use of any of a dozen non-prestigious forms. Of course, the problem *here* is deciding which dialects you're looking at, because there are many many English dialects. However, you can rest assured that there is *some* book, *some*where that explains how to use a double negative in English. This book, no doubt, doesn't make value statements of right or wrong, so it's a bit of a moot point.

And there was your short linguistics lesson of the day. Tomorrow I'll find a link to the interactive IPA, that'll be fun.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot. Typically developing doesn't mean "normally intelligent". Some quite intelligent people are not typically developing in this respect, some people who are *not* normally intelligent *are* typically developing when it comes to language.

Comments

[carakarena.livejournal.com]

If Spanish-speakers in New York don't use standard Spanish, so what? Are you learning Spanish so you can just speak to Spanish speakers in New York, or so you can speak to a broad variety of Spanish speakers? Even if for some reason all you ever wanted to do was talk to Spanish speakers in New York, how could it possibly do anything but help you to learn the source from which their language evolved? I could learn one of the many Neopolitan dialects, but why, when I can speak standard Italian and be able to understand and be understood by people across Italy?

Lots of native speakers of languages don't use or aren't aware of the academic or standard version of their own language. They speak their dialect as if it were the only one there is. If they never have to communicate outside their own group, then I guess that's just fine and dandy. But what effect do people who don't communicate outside their own group have on the world? What message does it send to others when you refuse to use, or worse, are unaware of the standard dialect when speaking to people outside of your own group?

[conuly]

Well, for one thing, there's more than one Standard of Spanish. The Spanish they taught us is only useful in a small area. Much better to learn the Spanish that is helpful in the area around us, with the people we're most likely to speak to, or in the areas we're most likely to visit/work (not Spain). If I want to learn where the language came from, I'll study Latin.

What message does it send to others when you refuse to use, or worse, are unaware of the standard dialect when speaking to people outside of your own group?

What message does it send to others when you insist on speaking a fancy dialect instead of the one they use? Most people consider that condescending.

[carakarena.livejournal.com]

I can't believe you are saying that standard English is a fancy dialect, and that most people consider it condescending to use it. That is just nonsense, not to mention the fact that you would look and sound like a total idiot changing the way you talk to fit every group and region you happen to find yourself in. Talk about condescending! I'd love to see how well that would go over with "most people."

You know, I'm sure you are a nice person, but I just can't take reading this stuff anymore. It's just too much.

[conuly]

Standard English *is* just another dialect.

I didn't say most people consider it condescending to use it. We were discussing Spanish, remember?

However, I know *from experience* that speaking Standard English to people who do not choose to use that dialect will have people calling you rude, or show-offy, or snotty. It isn't nonsense, it's pure fact.

Most people *do* change the way they tlak to fit in with every group they find themselves in. That's called code-switching. My sister Lizziey is a master at it. She can go from sounding like a valley-girl to speaking Black English to speaking with a Southern accent to speaking like she's from the heart of Brooklyn.